bellys37 Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Hi all have my own shop selling fireworks, and at first was concerned to hear that fireworks international were still going ahead and selling their large rockets in pyromesh, after been informed from a number of sources that they were been reclassified. So I obtained some info on this which I duelly handed over to the fire service to look into, and as they didnt really know much about this, they got The HSE to pull there files on the rockets. And the word from the HSE was that yes you can still store the rockets under 1.4 but as soon as you open the packaging they then revert back to 1.3, thus becoming illegal to sell to the public. I then went back to F.I. and they said rubbish as this had been approved by the HSE. So my Conclusion to all of this is: That some where along the line there as been some major ###### up by some one, so in the mean time its a stale mate as to do you sell them or not, I have made my own mind up on this problem to what I am doing. would be nice to hear other peoples verdict on this.PS still waiting for F.I. to get back to me on this as they said they were going to take it up with the fire service? still waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Give Fantastic fireworks a call, they are very helpful adn being a major cat 3 and cat 4 player they will probably know all the answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scjb Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Considering the potential level of sentencing if you are found guilty following a mistake... why the hell are you asking this question on an internet forum? Contact your local Trading Standards Office (the same people to whom you pay your storage licence fee and year-round sales licence fee, the phone number is on either one of those documents) and get clarification from the people who will be prosecuting you if you get it wrong. Forums are great for some things, not for others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipstream Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 FI are wrong, you would have to sell complete outers to be legal, as soon as the mesh is opened, they are 1.3 and you cannot store them, the punter is OK for various reasons. Some TS are aware and will hit hard when the season starts. www.absolutefireworks.com/Contact.htm Were sub packing them in smaller mesh boxes I believe, he is pretty clued up on retail and the UK v EU standards which often clash. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellys37 Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 Considering the potential level of sentencing if you are found guilty following a mistake... why the hell are you asking this question on an internet forum? Contact your local Trading Standards Office (the same people to whom you pay your storage licence fee and year-round sales licence fee, the phone number is on either one of those documents) and get clarification from the people who will be prosecuting you if you get it wrong. Forums are great for some things, not for others... in this part of yorkshire the fire service are responsible for inforcing the regs thats why I went to them A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. FI are wrong, you would have to sell complete outers to be legal, as soon as the mesh is opened, they are 1.3 and you cannot store them, the punter is OK for various reasons. Some TS are aware and will hit hard when the season starts. www.absolutefireworks.com/Contact.htm Were sub packing them in smaller mesh boxes I believe, he is pretty clued up on retail and the UK v EU standards which often clash. Sam it was the fire service that said that I am able to store them as 1.4 and I could open them and use them myself and still store them as 1.4 .For all of you intrested I have not posted this as a question but to get other peoples views on this matter because as with the law in the uk, it is a total mess and a very grey area. and as a warning to other suppliers of fireworks that you need to look into this for yourselfs because come the season alot of traders are more than likely going to find them selfs in court because they have taken the word of certain suppliers and this also covers other fireworks as well. because there is still alot of old spec out there so be warned if you supply fireworks check out where you stand for yourself with regards to selling and storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipstream Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 it was the fire service that said that I am able to store them as 1.4 and I could open them and use them myself and still stoe them as 1.4 .I doubt that would be the case - to transfer from default 1.3 to the lower 1.4 they would have been 4C tested, they make a pile on top of a spec'd bonfire and see what happens within a set time frame. If they burn off and the cage holds them without going 1.3 they have proved the mesh works and they are passed 1.4. If you open and re close the box, it is no longer the same package, the extra air space may react differently, all the variable are changed. Unless you redo a 4C with boxes you have taken 1 then two etc packs from then they revert to the UN default of 1.3G - end of. Even if I copy your box for my rockets, mine are still 1.3, till tested otherwise, cause they are possibly the same size but the colours or effects could be different, so they could behave differently. It's a minefield, speak to Absolute - sorry I cannot remember his name - or your DGSA if you are big enough to have one Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manchester Fireworks Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I have a firework shop in manchester and are dealing with F.I for the 1st time this year I've spoke to the rep and he assures me that the mesh boxes and selling the rockets is legal. I cant see a big company like that breaking the law and causing massive problems for themselves. However I will be discussing the problem with trading standards just to make sure. http://www.manchester-fireworks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipstream Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 I believe the HSE website has now clarified that the FI solution is NOT legal, and warns TS to look out for the mesh rocket packs. Word is Fireworks International are not best pleased Don't say I told you so, the problem with pyro legislation is much is contradictory, much of the industry ignores bits that don't suit their purposes, Fire Service / Trading Standards get misled or misunderstand complex and slightly rarefied laws that don't really form part of their core competence. HSE will not advise anymore, they tell you to seek professional advise and if you get it wrong they will prosecute you for it. Friend got stopped, doing a short non ADR delivery, and had no 2kg extingusher with him, the VOSA guy produce a prohibition form to write him up, only for my well informed friend to point out that the form referred to a statute that was out of date by over a month - if the enforcers cannot get it right, what chance has anyone else. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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