sonic Posted April 18, 2004 Posted April 18, 2004 Just wondered how many people are going up who are also on Blue Room.
Guest lightnix Posted April 19, 2004 Posted April 19, 2004 I have never worked at the Edinburgh Festival and certainly don't intend to start now :P
Stu Posted April 20, 2004 Posted April 20, 2004 Why not? Possibly the same reasons as I don't intend to work there - long hours, very little to no money, immoral / illegal working conditions etc etc This business will never move forward if people don't accept to get a good days work out of someone, they have to pay a decent day's money. However for as long as there are people prepared to work in these conditions, they'll continue to dole them out. Your choice. Stu
Rob Mander Posted April 20, 2004 Posted April 20, 2004 Stu, If you haven't been there how do you know that there are "long hours, very little to no money, immoral / illegal working conditions etc etc" I worked up there a couple of years ago and I found that myself and everyone else I worked with were well paid, worked in wonderful conditions and enjoyed themselves. Just because YOU have been offered rubbish money or YOU'VE been asked to do three shows a day dosn't mean the working conditions are illegal. Please can you explain why you have made these presumptions?
mac500 Posted April 20, 2004 Posted April 20, 2004 When I was a venue Tech up at the Fringe we had 14 shows a day with a 5/10min turnaround!
deranged-angel Posted April 20, 2004 Posted April 20, 2004 I worked there last year and had a great time. Yes, it's not very well paid and you do work long hours but it's brilliant for people to gain experience. I'm leaving uni in a couple of months and all the job applications want you to have experience. The fringe festival is a great way of building up your CV. It's better they give you a job and some money than you being unable to get a job at all. I understand why people already in the business dont want to go or are against it but you demand that people have to be experienced before they work for you so how do you expect them to gain experience otherwise. Unless you expect the companies to pay full wages in which case they couldnt employ as many people and then there'd be a whole stack of enthusiastic wokers with no experience and no job. I learned masses of stuff from C Venues, more than in 2 years of my uni course. It's brilliant on my CV; it shows ive got expreience, am willing to work hard and enthusiastic enough to want to get in to the business. It's also a great talking point with designers and other techs. Now, you might ask why I am not going this year?! Well, it is basically a case that I want to have a more permanent job and, having just left uni, I do need to make some money. I've also booked a holiday :P Good luck to all those that are going. You will have a blast. make sure you catch a couple of shows too!!! Oooh, yeah and visit piemaker! yum yum! Emxxx
Stu Posted April 20, 2004 Posted April 20, 2004 Please can you explain why you have made these presumptions? Of course, more than happy too. Having re-read my comments I think I was a bit 'selective' shall I say over my opinion, and it was basically based on one particular offer from last year. All I'm saying is that sometimes, with some companies, the money is dreadful - how anyone can be paid £250 odd for 6 weeks hard work is beyond me, but there you go. Going on the Mininium wage of £4.50p/h you should get £250 for a week, not 6! I should have posted at the time that I was posting my thoughts based on the odd company too or so, I'm happy to admit that. Problem is, I feel strongely about being paid a good days wage for a good days work, and I think I let my feelings come over a bit too strongly. Stu
Guest lightnix Posted April 20, 2004 Posted April 20, 2004 If you haven't been there how do you know that there are"long hours, very little to no money, immoral / illegal working conditions etc etc"Well you can read this thread for a start and then listen to the experience of many others. I'm not denying that there are people who......were well paid, worked in wonderful conditions...Somebody must be making some money somewhere, otherwise the whole thing would have folded years ago. I'm not denying either that a number of people do have a good time up there, gain valuable experience and come away with a well-deserved sense of achievement. I quite agree that beginners shouldn't get top dollar and ought to work their way up in order to enjoy better pay. What appalls me is the frequent and regular abuse of the self-employment regulations, which do immense amounts of damage to those who are genuinely self-employed. You might be there on a "freelance" basis, but that DOES NOT mean that you are self-employed and therefore responsible for your own tax and NI. Companies (no names mentioned) who hand out illegal "freelance" contracts saying that this is the case, do so in order to avoid paying the National Minimum Wage (hardly a fortune), Employers NI, Holiday Pay, etc., and so they can claim that the Working Time Directive does not apply. It is the IR56 Regulations that decide how "freelance" workers are taxed and nothing else. I also cannot help but wonder and worry about just how well insured those who sign such contracts are. The companies (no names mentioned) who hand out such contracts are breaking the laws which are there to protect you, not to mention storing up big trouble for themselves in the shape of some very large tax arrears bills (with interest added) in years to come. Believe me, they cannot get away with it forever. While having Edinburgh on your CV may look good in the short term, it is (like a degree) by no means a prerequisite for a successful career, believe me; I and many others have made it a long way without either. I'm very familiar with the Catch 22 "no work = no experience = no work" situation, but I simply don't accept the argument that people have to be exploited and denied their rights in order to get around it.I think I let my feelings come over a bit too strongly.I thought you were being quite restrained :P EDIT: Just found a few other thoughts on the subject in this thread from last year.
steven Posted April 20, 2004 Posted April 20, 2004 how anyone can be paid £250 odd for 6 weeks hard work is beyond me, but there you go. Going on the Mininium wage of £4.50p/h you should get £250 for a week, not 6!The thing is yes you could be paid £4.50/hr but they would then say you need to find your own accomodation, and during the festival this will be expensive meaning you are actually no better off.
robloxley Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 The thing is yes you could be paid £4.50/hr but they would then say you need to find your own accomodation, and during the festival this will be expensive meaning you are actually no better off. Errr - no. Sharing rent on a nice flat should cost <£300 for the whole festival, assuming you avoid Festival Flats.
Rob Mander Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 Ok, It seems my experience is vastly different than the others who have posted here. You talk of £250 for 6 weeks work I was earning over 17 times that! My accomodation cosisted of a very nice house share with some of the cast members of my show. I only had to do 2, 2 hour shows a day and all transport to and from the venue was paid for. I wouldn't be going there for anything less and urge others reading this to do same.
James C Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 RML, I take it you were employed by a production company doing a show or two, rather than a venue enterprise? I did Edinburgh twice. First, I went up with ( R)WCMD just as I was leaving college, and was partof the unpaid team running a venue. 10-hour shifts 7-days a week. This was, in fact, for no money (other than virtually-free accomodation), and was a fantastic experience for someone about to enter the cruel world of no longer being a student. It was a great half-way house between college and the real world. I expect that C-venues, Pleasance and the like would be a similar experience. The second time, I was employed as stage manager on a single production, so had accomodation covered, and earned Equity minimum while working no more than 3 hours a day. For someone starting out in the industry, I'd reccommend venue-work as a quite unique experience (moral issues aside). For someone already in the world of work, with a car-loan to make payments on etc, touring in with a show is infintitely perferable!
Guest lightnix Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 The thing is yes you could be paid £4.50/hr but they would then say you need to find your own accomodation......at which point you would politely decline their offer. If everybody took this stance there would less of a problem.
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