what comes after strand 500 series?

[GHenstock]

It's nice to see a couple of people jumping to the defence of the Eos... It makes me feel a little more confident about taking a closer look at them.

 

For clarification's sake, my line about it possibily requiring "tweaking" was only due to my initial impressions of the console, not the result of extensive use. So far, I have only had limited exposure to the Eos and most of that has been when visiting other venues. Please do not feel that I am speaking from my own programming of them. I also acknowledge that ETC's approach to upgrades and development is very impressive.

 

In my experiences up to now, I encountered venues who had newly aquired an EOS (or, in one case, just got one in to try out) and the operator's in those venues seemed to be having a few problems with things like assigning multiple scrollers to a single channel (but keeping individual control of each scroller) and programming complex chases.

 

This does not mean, however, that the EOS can't do those things (or even that it can't do them easily in the hands of a skilled operator) just that my experiences so far have been of operators struggling to get the desk to do a few things I used to take for granted on the Strand 500 series consoles.

 

For the record, despite those experiences, I do feel that the EOS is the current leader of the pack when it comes to possible Strand 500 replacements, although I am still eager to take a look at the GrandMa 2.

[Tim Edwards]

Hi All,

 

I thought I'd chip-in... I've just bought an ETC ION and I'm doing the first show on it this week. I think like all desks it takes a while to get used to where everything is and the new syntax. I have found the change from the Hog to the ION pretty smooth. The effects engine in the ION rocks. I also really like the multiple undo display for those moments at two in the morning when you hit the wrong buttons! I really can't believe what this desk can do for the price!!!

 

For a school or college I'd really think about buying the wings for subs or extra playbacks... make the desk a lot more flexable for on the fly events. To the die hard Strand fans who seem to be knocking ETC about the EOS/ION still needing tweaking- Yes it probably does need tweaking but this is the same with all lighting desks. At least ETC are listening to what the end user wants and constantly refining the product. I think it is very telling that Whitelight have just bought 3 EOS and 6 ION (From an inside source "to replace the 500 series").

 

Strand have had there day in control- they got it wrong with the light pallette and ETC are getting it right.

 

Tim

[David Buffham]

Beyond the GSX, my experience of Strand is limited so I can't comment in detail on how Eos compares to Strand - but I do know that ETC have converted a number of very good Strand programmers to Eos, and are continually listening to - and seeking - the views of these programmers, as well as programmers from other backgrounds, as to how to continue to refine the product.

 

As far as it's development goes, the Eos continues to evolve over time. We had a demo of Eos over a year ago, at that time I think it was running version 1.1 - back then I had a lot of 'why doesn't it?' questions - right now we're at 1.4, with 1.5 due by the end of the year, and we're already well beyond that stage. Far better, I think, to gradually introduce a console to the market so that it's users can shape its development as it matures, than to release it as a done deal that doesn't quite work for anyone. I've used Eos constantly over the last year and have seen a lot of positive changes. I still have my own list of things I'd like to see, but nothing fundamental. With Eos I can program quicker and more accurately than with Virtuoso, and there's nothing I want to do that I can't do as easily, or better, on Eos than on Virtuoso.

 

Personally I think that Eos brings together the best of Virtuoso and Strand, whilst staying loyal to its ETC roots.

[son of lx dad]

Lets answer the OP and not go on about old Strands we loved...

 

If the ETC experience feels like a Strand in some ways as some have said and the transition is easy then I ask again "what is the point?". If the college already teaches Strand then what is the point of teaching a similar console?

This is about the teaching, expanding knowledge through a wide industry surely?

I say again - your students will almost certainly not work in the theatre industry exclusively - I know for a fact that the more successful ones don't. So why limit them with all this ex Strand revelry, move forward - and moving forward does not mean make something a bit like a Strand to appeal to old users. Embrace a future way of working and help move an industry onwards.

[GridGirl]

Interesting article on the ALIA webpage regarding the Ion - it seems the show's op would agree with a lot of us here who are beginning to see the Eos/Ion as the successor to the Strand 500 series. Worth a read. The nature of the website means I can't link to the exact article but the webpage is here and the article is the one titled "ETC Ion on tour with Company B", five headlines down the page (at least, five headlines today!).

[andy_s]

Lets answer the OP and not go on about old Strands we loved...

 

If the ETC experience feels like a Strand in some ways as some have said and the transition is easy then I ask again "what is the point?". If the college already teaches Strand then what is the point of teaching a similar console?

This is about the teaching, expanding knowledge through a wide industry surely?

I say again - your students will almost certainly not work in the theatre industry exclusively - I know for a fact that the more successful ones don't. So why limit them with all this ex Strand revelry, move forward - and moving forward does not mean make something a bit like a Strand to appeal to old users. Embrace a future way of working and help move an industry onwards.

 

umm, in your own words "lets answer the OP"....who is teaching stage management students, not lighting technicians. I imagine most of these, (and let's hope they are all successful in getting the sort of work they want to do) are unlikely to end up specialising in lighting and may indeed end up outside the theatre world, but probably not in the lighting world either. An understanding of what's involved in making lighting work is highly desirable, indeed necessary for stage management staff, but a deep understanding of a wide variety of consoles probably isn't, and is as likely to confuse as it is to enlighten (please excuse the appalling pun...)

 

I don't disagree with your point when applied to students of lighting technology and practice, but BOVTS doesn't offer a lighting course.

 

I do disagree with your presumptuous dismissal of theatre practitioners as being less than successful - granted to earn enough money to live on, people may have to sacrifice their principles and artistic integrity, but.....success can be defined in all sorts of ways. I doubt whether even knowledgable punters at your average gig would know or care who designed or programmed the lights, however much they liked them, but a seasoned theatregoer would probably be more aware of the creative team for a play or musical.

 

in terms of comparing strand and etc, I'd personally do so only in as far as I'd say it was no harder to learn to operate a congo than it is to operate a 520 or 530. I don't think ETC set out to imitate strand, just pinch their market share....

 

she wants a console which will at least perform the functions of the one she is replacing, various people have made suggestions, it's now up to her to try them all out and decide which one best fits the brief.

[smalljoshua]

Interesting article on the ALIA webpage regarding the Ion - it seems the show's op would agree with a lot of us here who are beginning to see the Eos/Ion as the successor to the Strand 500 series. Worth a read. The nature of the website means I can't link to the exact article but the webpage is here and the article is the one titled "ETC Ion on tour with Company B", five headlines down the page (at least, five headlines today!).

Direct Link to above Aritcle

 

Josh

[paulears]

I guess this choice problem hovers around the old thorny question of is stage lighting an art, or a skill?

 

Are we teaching process or result? Is meaningful training useful in the workplace?

 

I suspect that the change from a single almost universal manufacturer, with a number of worthy minor players, each with a dedicated user base into a marketplace filled with similar but operationally different products has changed things quite a lot. 10 years ago, having a Strand syntax desk that students could learn on meant many of them could easily move sideways into the version their new employer used and nobody noticed. They could pick up the new or different features as they went on. Now it's changed. More priority is on the results, and the tool doesn't matter quite so much as whatever you learn on, it's going to be different from what you employer has. Maybe this is where Strand went wrong, forgetting that loyalty was not so much a desire, but just a practical way of doing things. The minute they started messing about and dragging their heels, loyalty evaporated quite quickly. Nowadays, the choice of desk is made for operational reasons and usually private preference. If you accept that everyone, staff included will have to learn a new operating system, then the brand maybe doesn't matter as much as it did. Price, features and benefits rule the day. Nothing is 'best' anymore. I moved from Strand which was the only thing I ever considered, but then found pressure to try other systems, and each one has been good in it's own right - just different. Maybe we just have to live with repeated re-learning, and forget brand loyalty.

 

Re: the Pallette, they have one in the Baby Grand studio at Belfast Grand Opera House. The Strand mainstage people hate it, but the technician who uses t every day quite likes it. This is the problem. Perhaps they should simply rebadge the brand as Phillips - if they did, people would be more willing to accept it.

[son of lx dad]

I concede andy_s, you make a very valid point about the course being a stage management based course. I admit my last post was very bias towards a lighting technical structured course.

However I stand by the ideas in my last post and would like it noted I used the phrase

 

"not work in the theatre industry exclusively"

 

None is saying that theatre practitioners are not successful in either a creative or wealth sense, especially me. I am lucky enough to work across a wide variety of genres, the lampies I respect the most work in the theatre industry more than any genre but they do work in other genres.

 

Apologies mods for the OTness of this post

[richard_cooper]

Surely the most important thing is to teach the craft of lighting, not simply the operation of one desk. No lighting control system will last for ever, the Congos, Eos/Ions, GramdMAs, Palettes, Frogs, Pearls of this world will only be around for so long, then all these students will have to master other systems. An understanding of the concepts is most important. I've just appointed a graduate position to someone from a similar course who has experience with 500 series, we mainly use Congo, plus Frogs, and very occasionally get the renovated 520 out. If we'd had an applicant with Congo experience I doubt it would have changed our appointment decision. I know whoever we appointed would have to receive training on some of our equipment, be it Congos, Frogs, Qlab, 01v96, LS9, whatever. I needed someone trained in the craft, which they can perform using our particular tools. Who knows, if ETC go out of business and our Congo fails, in a years time we'd all be relearning anyway!

 

My only set question at interview, was about how the candidate would approach learning our control tool set (Congo, Qlab, 01V96, etc.) we'd offer training, but how would they approach becoming fluent.

 

Now the dominance of the Genius Pro systems has gone, we need to train people to enter an environment where they may need to pick up new technology quickly.