Education vs Experience

[John]

Last year a student of mine submitted a discussion that was of interest to me. The topic of discussion asked a basic question i.e. Are trained professionals (i.e. those who went to college/university) more successful than those who learned their trade through the 'university of life'? I teach Stage Management and was also trained myself, but when asking around some of my colleagues in the business I discovered that the vast majority of them where trained and very few of them were not. This surprised me to an extent as I believed that the difference would have been less. Which of you out there went to college and which simply worked their way into the positions that you currently hold?

 

Regards

[kalmatthew]

Last year a student of mine submitted a discussion that was of interest to me. The topic of discussion asked a basic question i.e. Are trained professionals (i.e. those who went to college/university) more successful than those who learned their trade through the 'university of life'? I teach Stage Management and was also trained myself, but when asking around some of my colleagues in the business I discovered that the vast majority of them where trained and very few of them were not. This surprised me to an extent as I believed that the difference would have been less. Which of you out there went to college and which simply worked their way into the positions that you currently hold?

 

Regards

I personally think that although most things can be picked up by experience. Some of the more technical (LX etc) things are best taught. Also tranning can provide information on first aid, buissines managment etc. Thes things may well not really be picked up so easily on the job.

 

Kal

 

P.S. I think This belongs in Traning

[jot100]

I hold a degree in Theatre Practice which on paper looks like what?? I spent one year training in stage management the 3 years in costume construction and wardrobe managment. I am now a theatre technicain in a college and am responible for the lighting and sound. So now even though I have a "technical" degree (costume construction counts as technical) I am having to learn the job as I go. Luckily I know about lighting and can operate a lighting board but I need to be trained in all the sound equipment. I am in 2 minds as regards to my training and how well it prepared me for the reality of working in theatre (66hr weeks and not being paid on time were never a topic!)

[John]

I am in 2 minds as regards to my training and how well it prepared me for the reality of working in theatre (66hr weeks and not being paid on time were never a topic!)

 

These points are virtually impossible to simulate in a college or university, though I agree that they are essential to learning the reality of the work that the students are about to undertake. Most students on their first job get a shock at the hours and stamina needed to fulfil the roles that they have been assigned. Work placements can go a bit of the way to making them aware of this, but this is reliant on how they are treated on the placement. Unfortunately many professionals who take work placements on board don't allow the student a full crack at the job in question and often go easy on them as a result.

 

The college at which I teach has very restricting hours of opening and we have to be out by 8.30pm in most cases (unless their is a performance running). We never do overnighters or schedule in late LX sessions. Most of our production week schedules seem to be taken up with paint sessions as we aren't allowed to have the painters in on a nightshift session, so we have to wait for paint to dry, literarily.

 

As for paying on time.....all we can do is warn them.

 

Sadly we lose a lot of potentially good Stage Managers, LX Techs etc... after or during their first jobs as they become disillusioned very quickly with the new life style that they have undertaken.

 

I think that it a shared problem that both the industry and education have to tackle by putting their heads together and presenting a solution.

 

Thanks

[John]

It is also a bit disheartening to see that I have had 120 or so views and only 10 votes....it cant be that hard to hit one of two buttons to add to the poll.....can it?

 

Regards

[the kid]

I was thinking of asking a similar question as I'm paning to enter in to the industry myself. From what I have found so far is:

Who you know

[John]

It is indeed. Their are a lot of cliques out there and if your not part of the gang then the going can be difficult......Good luck!

[TomLyall]

It is also a bit disheartening to see that I have had 120 or so views and only 10 votes....it cant be that hard to hit one of two buttons to add to the poll.....can it?

 

Regards

well no, but for a start theres got to be some of those hits which cant answer, im only 15 and therefore still in compulsary education. so I havent had the big choice yet however I have been getting all the experience I can and im planning to do some formal training next year.

[James]

It is also a bit disheartening to see that I have had 120 or so views and only 10 votes....it cant be that hard to hit one of two buttons to add to the poll.....can it?

 

Regards

 

Well I don't know which button to click.

 

I spent 3 years at Uni, learning not a lot on my course and pissing about in the Uni student theatre and TV studio.

 

I have now had almost 3 years of formal training by my employer in a further education enviroment.

 

So

 

Neither :(

 

James

[TomLyall]

could I suggest a few more options, assuming they can be added...

 

Education followed by experience

Experience then deciding for more eduction

[John]

Points taken graciously! I naively thought that most of the members on this sight were professionals already working in the industry. Apologies!!

[John]

I cant seem to alter the Poll now that it has been posted. Sorry, guess I'll just have to restrict it to those working at the moment.

 

I naively thought that most of the members on this sight were professionals

 

Jesus! My spelling is attroshus!!!! Must remember to smell check more ofen......

[Rob]

Moderation - Topic moved to Training forum

 

There is also some discussion of this subject in this thread.

[wilcoxjnr]

For my first post, I thought I'd throw my two penneth in...

 

I started my legitimate backstage career at 16, as soon as I was legally allowed to. I was very lucky in the fact that up until that point, I really had no idea of any sort of career path, but had watched other members of my family enjoy jobs in theatre, and once I was given the opportunity to try it, soon decided that it would do for me too.

 

During the time whilst I was still undecided about my career, I was working as a casual technician at my local theatre, and carrying on with my A-Levels at sixth form college (albeit with "mystery" absences for Monday fit-up's and Wednesday afternoon matinees...) I even spent the last six months of my course revising whilst manning odd shifts as the stage door keeper!

 

When the time rolled round to find something to do in the real world, I looked at technical theatre degree courses at many institutions around the country in the same way that my college buddies were looking at academic courses. I took the decision to take what would be a "gap" year; to carry on working at my local theatre and in other theatre based casual jobs (conference crewing, other theatres, etc.) in order to build up a base of experience and more importantly, contacts. If I was still in the same position after that year, I would apply for technical theatre courses at university.

 

When I was at work, I would show willing, volunteer for absolutely everything, and ask inane questions until my more experienced colleagues finally gave in - they realised that it would just be quicker to explain things to me than for me to pester them all day!

 

In taking these jobs, and proving to the naysayers that I was working because of my own ability and not because of who I was related to, I soon built up the confidence and contacts to take on bigger and better jobs. By Christmas of the "gap" year I was in the right place at the right time to jump in to a last minute ASM position on a big panto with a big production company. I worked my a** off to get the job done above and beyond the call of duty, and my hard work was rewarded with a (very junior) position on their next national tour. From here things snowballed, and I have been working pretty much none stop ever since. The idea of university went out the window once I realised that I would just be returning to the same jobs I was getting at that moment after three years of study.

 

I will be the first person to admit that I had a very lucky start - the old adage may be that "It's not what you know, it's who you know..." but once you get that first foot in the door there is nothing that will keep you there except for ability, hard work and perseverance.

 

As an employer now, although I may be slightly biased towards those with vocational rather than (or as well as) academic experience, there is absolutely nothing that counts more than a willingness to learn and work. Starting from the bottom and working your way up also counts for a lot, even after leaving college with a degree!

 

Sorry for the long post, I just got a little carried away once I started... I know that this route may not suit everyone - personally I would have loved to have gone to uni just to do the whole "student" thing, but I travelled the country, then the world, doing what I love and being paid for it.

[sunflower]

Funnily enough I was much the same as wilcoxjnr and my husband also did the same except he sort of fell into it.

 

Even though I went to college to do a BA in Costume Design and making, I wouldn't say that my college degree helped me really, certainly I was not told the amount of hard labour that was required, I was just told I would get a job as a designer? ha ha!!! I have achieved this now but, it has taken me at least 10 years and starting my own company to do it.

 

I also started in Panto and had a theatrical family, and went on to ASM/Wardrobe and then Wardrobe Mistress for several National A Tours, finishing in the West End at the ENO.

 

I wouldn't say that education helps ? just a willingless to learn is all you need and to work very very hard!!!!

 

As I said my husband fell into theatre, for Northern Ballet - a carpenter went sick and he was in the right place. He worked in a touring house for 10 years after and then got offered a tour simply because someone noticed him. He ended up all over the west end in commercial A theatre as Master Carpenter/Stage Manager so,

 

all I would say is you don't know what is around the corner and if we can do it so can anybody else. :(