Noise levels

[JakeCTG]

I am doing a gig tonight at a local football club and we have been told that we need to keep the level down to 87 db they told me any more details cause they don't know.

 

The question is has anyone else had to deal with this for a gig and what have you done?

[Sirch Sound]

Yep, most recent was monday. Heres the link to the thread about it.

 

The search function is your friend, even if this thread has been on the front page of blue-room since sunday.

 

Rich

[Simon Lewis]

Probably, the limit is meant to be measured at the FOH desk - based on measurements already taken that show that the level at the nearest dwelling is acceptably low when it's 87dB(A) at the desk.

 

You need to take a (half decent) SLM with you and enusre that the average doesn't exceed 87dB(A)... If the council monitor the gig, they will come and tell you when they believe it's "over" this level. If they do not monitor it, it will be up to local residents complaining as to whether they come out.

 

If the club have been warned before, there could be the threat of an abatement notice being issued if you do not comply. Tread carefully!

 

Simon

[JakeCTG]

Probably, the limit is meant to be measured at the FOH desk - based on measurements already taken that show that the level at the nearest dwelling is acceptably low when it's 87dB(A) at the desk.

 

You need to take a (half decent) SLM with you and enusre that the average doesn't exceed 87dB(A)... If the council monitor the gig, they will come and tell you when they believe it's "over" this level. If they do not monitor it, it will be up to local residents complaining as to whether they come out.

 

If the club have been warned before, there could be the threat of an abatement notice being issued if you do not comply. Tread carefully!

 

Simon

 

 

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

The sound spill isn't an issue the issue is the damaging of the staff's hearing, I don't think that there has been any complaints before as they have been able to the the red hot chill peppers in the stadium so our little gig in one of the suites shouldn't be a problem the main issue is that the room is 50m long and the band is down one end so to get the band at a reasonable level the PA will be way over the limit at FOH.

[Sirch Sound]

Yes but sound levels can be negotioated, as probably was done with the RHCP.

 

If you get a longer throwing system then yes you will probably have to go over 87db to get a decent level at the back, however I will not be as bad as a trying to get a short throw box to give a decent level at the back.

 

Rich

[Matt Riley]

The whole 87 dB thing sounds like that it is an internally imposed restriction to ensure that bar staff have a safe place to work which doesn't damage their hearing, rather than an outside thing by the council in this case. We have this whenever we do gigs in our smaller bars. If this is the case, then make sure you've got a good, directional rig with powerful subs so you can go with a well balanced sound where you can still feel the kick and bass, and ensure that if the bar is at the opposite end of the room, you put the speakers up high and angle them down lots so the horns don't fire towards the bar. If you're speakers are small enough then try the proel adjustable angle pole mount for starters when trying to achieve this.

 

M

[Simon Lewis]

OK... it's indoors and it's linked to the Control of Noise at Work Regulations 2005.

 

Well, the limit (not taking hearing protection into account) would be 85dB(A) Lep,d and an exposure limit value at the ear that does take PPE into account of 87dB(A) Lep,d.

 

Now you need to work out the time that your event exposes the staff to noise for. Using the time / intensity trade off, you could run your gig at 88dB(A) for 4 hours, or 91dB(A) for 2 hours, with max exposure levels of 90 and 93dB respectively. I would get a sound level meter capable of measuring A weighted Leq, and mount it at the bar, to determine staff exposure. Keep it at or under the the relevent limit, and explain to the club that 87dB(A) Lep,d means 87dB(A) for 8 hours, for a 5 day working week ;-)

 

Hope the gig goes OK...

[paulears]

If a venue is going to impose limits to ensure compliance, then it does strike me that it is they who should be doing the measuring, and calculating the exposure - not the visiting PA company. Shift patterns, and exact location of employees is a management function - how would a visitor know how long somebody has been on duty and how long they have left? Simon has detailed the different possible levels, but how would this be explained to the bar supervisior who might have had a bad time with maths GCSE? picking the lowest level for the longest shift is a cop out designed to shift the responsibility onto a non-staff member. Sucks!

[Doug Siddons]

If you work with the establishments designated person on the sound level thing you should be ok. As it appears from what has been written that its purely for the staffs safety I would also suggest going the extra mile and get a tub of ear plugs for the staff who may want them and add this cost to your invoice. It will show the venue you are serious about their requirements

[mervaka]

to be honest, the venue should provide the earplugs to staff anyway!

 

EDIT: but seeing as it's a foodball club in question, the above recommendation seems more appropriate.

[Ian der Laan]

Ear plugs aren't really an option for bar staff that need to hear what's going on. If I was you, I'd let the club know that safe working SPL's are based on how long staff/public are exposed to the sound (take some supporting docs if necessary) then let them make the decision. In fairness, they will probably not budge because that's what the boss has said. Let them know that the sound will suffer but it's their choice. If they still want to stick to 87dB, that's up to them- the customer's always right. ;)

Just do as they ask, take a SPM and monitor the levels. It's a very annoying situation but needs must.

 

Edit:Just realised the date

[paulears]

Ear plugs aren't really an option for bar staff that need to hear what's going on

 

Why not? That's what they are for. Even the cheap foam ones cut the level down.

[Ian der Laan]

Ear plugs aren't really an option for bar staff that need to hear what's going on

 

Why not? That's what they are for. Even the cheap foam ones cut the level down.

The point I'm making is that if the venue has asked for the sound level to be 87dB, do as they say. I agree earplugs are for reducing noise levels but if staff can't communicate (i.e. hear orders at the bar etc.) you may annoy the venue. I'm not sure about you but I haven't seen many bar staff wearing earplugs in the past. If, after gentle persuasion the venue still want 87dB then so be it.

[Mr.Si]

The way I see it is that the venue is trying to enforce the NAW 2k5 regs without having to resort to Hearing Protection.

 

It does say in the HSE regs about hearing protection being the last resort, so they're trying to do exactly that.

 

87 / 85 dB indoors, in a football club's bar is not easy to stick to. The acoustic noise of instruments alone is often higher than that.

 

But if that's what they want, then one has to try and do it.

[mervaka]

Ear plugs aren't really an option for bar staff that need to hear what's going on

 

Why not? That's what they are for. Even the cheap foam ones cut the level down.

The point I'm making is that if the venue has asked for the sound level to be 87dB, do as they say. I agree earplugs are for reducing noise levels but if staff can't communicate (i.e. hear orders at the bar etc.) you may annoy the venue. I'm not sure about you but I haven't seen many bar staff wearing earplugs in the past. If, after gentle persuasion the venue still want 87dB then so be it.

 

if I can order my drink with my earplugs still in then I'm sure bar staff can serve with them in. my point is, it reduces overall levels going into your ears, so you're no worse off. in my opinion, the SPL is brought down to a much better level for me to hear the bar staff.