Recording backing tracks from pc to md.

[johndenim]

Hi BR.

 

I am working the club scene as one half of a duo, singing backing vox and playing guitar.

I buy mp3 backing tracks from various different companies, and put them onto md.

(I must stress that a lot of them are Eq'd differently and different levels, hence the compressor)

 

Currently I just use the headphone socket from my pc, into a compressor, EQ, and then onto the rca inputs to my sony md recorder.(through the mixer)

Its in stereo, but the 2nd generation copy is not quite as good as the 1st. the difference is not really audible, but I can hear it!

I have to cut a little top end to get rid of a tiny bit of hiss, is there a better way of recording? I have sonicsound but I need to record to md. (in analogue)

 

I dont have an a/v card or any other pheripherals.

 

Cheers,

 

John Denim.

[henny]

try,

http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll...;satitle=net+md

 

drag and drop mp3 to minidisk digital all the way

[Bobbsy]

You don't actually ask a question, but let's assume you're looking for a way to improve quality!

 

On balance, I'd probably stick to to the sort of method you use, with the possible addition of a decent audio interface for your laptop. Even relatively cheap devices (E-mu for example) will be a lot better than the headphone jack.

 

My reason for saying this is your note about tweaking levels, compression, etc. Having dealt myself with pre-recorded backing tracks I firmly agree that it's important to do some processing prior to your "master MD" to make sure everything you playback from stage is at a similar level and doesn't have a super-quiet start. I'm a great fan of a natural dynamic range in the studio and home...but on stage you need to bring everything up.

 

Because of the wide variations, I'd personally rule out and direct "digital to digital" route without the opportunity to process your stuff. In any case, such a procedure will either be producing a non-standard MD (one with MP3 compression) or involve a conversion between MP3 and ATRAC compression.

 

Regarding EQ, don't be afraid to filter off any content above 16kHz--MP3 contains no information in this area anyway. If there's more noise than in this area, most DAW software includes some form of noise reduction but use it sparingly as this can add artefacts. I'd hope a change to a better sound interface than the headphone jack will help this anyway.

 

Bob

[jamesperrett]

Going from one lossy format to another is never a great idea. Mp3 is really intended to be a final delivery format so any further processing of the mp3 file is going to start to show up its shortcomings.

 

When you add in the terrible quality of modern laptop headphone outputs (the ones I've used recently sound worse than my 15 year old Soundblaster card) and I'm not surprised that you are hearing a loss in quality. The headphone output of my Creative Muvo mp3 player is far superior to any recent laptop output I've heard.

 

If you are buying these backing tracks then you should be insisting on uncompressed .wav files which will withstand processing and encoding to MD without highlighting the shortcomings of the mp3 compression. It would also be a good idea to buy a plug-in audio interface for your laptop. I would be tempted to eq and compress digitally on the laptop and use a digital link between the laptop and MD unless you have some really top quality analogue processing. There are all kinds of free or cheap software to allow you to do this.

 

Cheers

 

James.

[Bobbsy]

James Perrett makes a point I meant to in my previous post but forgot to add on: if it's at all possible you should be buying your backing tracks as wave files, not MP3. This will give a definite and audible increase in quality compared to low bit rate MP3 files. If you do have to accept MP3, you should be trying for at least 320kbps files rather than the usual 128 kbps ones.

 

This, coupled with a decent sound card (and, again, decent doesn't have to cost a bomb for a simple stereo interface) should really help, even if you use an analogue input to your MD.

 

If the interface you buy happens to have S/PDIF out and your MD S/PDIF in, then a digital link might help too. However, I'm always just a bit leery of digital inputs to mini disk decks, having been caught out too many times by the &@!£ copyright protection they build in Since mini disk uses ATRAC compression anyway, the differences between a good analogue feed to ATRAC compared to S/PDIF to ATRAC won't be huge (though I must be honest and say they ARE there.

 

Bob

[johndenim]

Thanks chaps,

so now I realise that I need some kind of sound card, sorry I should mention that I record all of my mp3 backing tracks to MD from my desktop, not that it makes much difference!

 

You mention the digital protection on MD recorders bobbsy, it really is a pain in the a*se.

Only one first generation digital copy can be made, as you know.

 

I must also mention that I have a top of the range walkman style Sony MD player/recorder, but the display and controls are so small, I struggle to use it!

 

Any suggestions on sound cards?

I have a couple of free pci slots and have looked on the web for such, but all I can find is 5.1 surround sound?

 

I must admit that when the talk goes a bit technical, (bitrates and such) I get a bit confused!

 

John Denim.

[fatfrog]

Heres a link to thomanns selection of usb boxes.

 

There is one for every budget to be honest.

 

USB Audio Interfaces - Thomann

 

 

Alan

[boswell]

As you are not using a lappy to go to MD, try this test.

Copy a commercial CD (one with quiet passages) onto your MD using your normal copying method.

Now play the MD, if you can hear the hiss then it's your soundcard. (this assumes that your MD player is not generating any hiss !!)

If there is no hiss then your setup is OK and it's your source material you need to improve ie get away fom low bitrate MP3.

[johndenim]

I have been swaying towards the pci rather than usb, but thanks for the link Alan, was thinking of this.

 

http://www.thomann.de/gb/swissonic_ts22pci.htm

The cheaper the better but will it be up to scratch and will the software be included?

Or is it plug and play?

 

Oh and thanks for your comment Boswell, I will give it a go.

 

John Denim.

[Bobbsy]

I haven't tried the Thomann so can't comment on its quality.

 

Two PCI versions that I know work well and are very quiet would be THIS ONE and THIS ONE. The E-MU card, though cheaper, is only unbalanced audio but for this application that doesn't really matter.

 

However, I might suggest you re-consider the idea of a firewire interface. You are quite clearly a gearhead (like me!) and from you comments you already have the seeds of discontent with your minidisk playback system. The replacement for that could we be a laptop. Equally, desktop computers die, become outdated, etc.etc. and you may end up replacing this in the lifetime of whatever sound card you buy. Going the USB route would, as much as possible, future proof you and give you the maximum flexibility in what you do.

 

If you are willing to consider the USB option, one I know that would do your job is THIS E-MU or perhaps THIS EDIROL though I have to admit I haven't personally used that version of Edirol, only its bigger brothers.

 

Bob

[johndenim]

Thanks Bob,

From your comments I think that a usb interface would be the way to go, the EDIROL does appeal to me, price is low and it will be a definate improvement on a headphone socket.

 

I will buy one and let you all know how it is.

 

John Denim.

[Uikhtor]

:) Does someone know what is better SWISSONIC TS22PCI or ESI JULI@? Are already exist articules with benchmark analysis of their units and with description of their works? I hesitate what to bye. Thank You for reply and sorry if my English is too bad.