Bad PAT testing

[nothingatall666]

afternoon all!

 

Yesterday I got the premises officers at our school to take down 3 Fresnels, to put them up in the drama studio. Ready for GCSE drama next week.

 

while I was taking them to the studio I noticed one of them had a quite large split in the cable and the wire was exposed.

 

it was PAT tested early last year (so is due for another) and hasn't been touched since it was put up by hawthorns.

the premises officers did not make this as the lamps where all unplugged and I was watching them take them down and they didn't touch the wire.

 

this puts the blame on hawthorns, does it not? it shouldn't have been passed its PAT test if it was in this condition.

of course this discovery of mine means I shouldn't use it. and I wont unless I get really needy for more light.

 

just thought I would tell you folks, as theres not really anyone else to discuss it with.

maybe it shows that we should all check over everyone's work?.

 

heres some pic's (usual excuse of rubbish quality pics due to taking them on my phone.)

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[Andrew C]

Any one refocused it since PAT? Can you prove that is hasn't been moved? Could easily have been done then, and not noticed. Silicon cable is VERY easy to damage in this manner.

 

Accusing a supplier/tester in an open forum could end up with you on the end of a very sh!tty stick.

[nothingatall666]

before we took it down. It had not been re-focused at all. apart from the odd chance that a bulb blows and our premises officers go up to change it. noone goes up there.

 

The only thing I can possibly think of is that when hawthorns came take the hired Socapex used to power the bar away, they used a knife to cut the LX tape, and someone cut a bit too far but even so, its courtesy to say.

 

If that was the case. wouldn't that be damage to the schools equipment, therefore the company would have to pay towards the damages?

I suppose its been too long now that if this issue was brought up then there wouldn't be enough evidence to show who cut the cable.

I'm just a bit annoyed that I will have to rearrange my LX plans, and cues.

[paulears]

As Andrew said, you are not in a position to prove anything of the kind - I walked into the lighting box today, and somebody has moved the plan - I know it was folded up under the DMX splitter. So by your process, I must have moved it - nobody else has??

 

In this case, somebody could have caught t with a ladder, maybe somebody else did focus it and then refocus is back again. A YEAR is a long time. It has just failed it's test this year - so that is that! Why worry about blame - nobody after this time will accept blame. Push it and you lose your test company. Hawthorns as far as I'm aware are a reputable company - and I don't think blaming them because it couldn't be anybody else makes a great deal of sense?

[jamed2017]

Stick a new cable on it? Problem Solved?

 

 

Thats not the worse think I've scene with a PAT sticker on it.

 

We found a 13amp plug to Male IEC with a PAT sticker on it. ;)

[nothingatall666]

somebody could have caught it with a ladder, maybe somebody else did focus it and then refocus is back again.

 

these suggestions are very unlikely. Like I said, no one else apart from the premisis officers (who have only been up once, to take them down) have been up their. if anything is changed, I usually get told. and no one would have any reason to change them, the bar is not wired, thus there are no sockets.

 

 

im not trying to blame anyone to give them grief. I am just curious in to when it happened

 

as for sticking a new cable on it. I can't as im a student and you know how they don't like that situation, but no one else would do it. which would mean spending money on getting hawthorns to change it. and again, schools hate spending money.

[iamchristuffin]

Just because you 'usually' get told, doesn't mean they will, or have to tell you. You're 15, not an employee of the school.

 

Why was it focussed if there are no sockets? Or was there an extension cable powering it, in which case that could have been moved too!

[Ike]

of course this discovery of mine means I shouldn't use it. and I wont unless I get really needy for more light.

It also means you should prevent others using it. Covering the plug in tape so it can't be used and fixing a big sign to it saying DO NOT USE should do the job. Getting really needy for a light isn't an excuse for using something that's unsafe.

 

just thought I would tell you folks, as theres not really anyone else to discuss it with.

Cool, this is after all what the forums for. In future it might be a good idea to not mention the name of the company though so people don't think your trying to name and shame people.

 

maybe it shows that we should all check over everyone's work?

Yep. No matter how great you are at something you're bound to make a mistake once in a while. Flex is very easily damaged (especially silicon stuff) which is why it's a good idea to give every appliance a once over every times it's moved. All it takes is a second or two to run your hand down the cord (while it's not plugged in!) and it could just save your life!

[nothingatall666]

Just because you 'usually' get told, doesn't mean they will, or have to tell you. You're 15, not an employee of the school.

 

I know, I never said they had to. they just do. I have records of everything the school has. whats broken, where stuff is. Its like this because no staff there has any experiance/training in stage sound/lighting.

 

Why was it focussed if there are no sockets? Or was there an extension cable powering it, in which case that could have been moved too!

 

read,

The only thing I can possibly think of is that when hawthorns came take the hired Socapex used to power the bar away

[Andrew C]

Please understand this:-

When Hawthorn's lawyers call, it is you that they will call. Your posts here are yours, and not The Blue Rooms.

[Just Some Bloke]

Could I just mention that you shouldn't have been using this lantern anyway?

 

Look:

 

[Tomo]

Nothingatall666, may I point out three facts:

 

1) The lantern PAT sticker appears to indicate that the retest was due in 2005. (I may be misreading it, it may say March 2008)

- This therefore indicates that the units have been out-of-test for three years. A lot can happen in three years.

 

2) PAT is like an MOT - it is a document stating that the equipment was ok at that moment.

- It is entirely possible for damage to occur immediately after the tester leaves the building. Depending on who did the damage, they may have either not noticed it happen, or tried to hide the damage.

 

2) You have publicly named a reputable company and accused them of incompetence.

- Even if the accusation were true, you should not have done that for two very simple reasons:

 

- A) Your facts appear to be wrong - the item seems to have been out of PAT for three years.

- B) It's not your job to do that - your duty was to inform your teachers and to mark the item as unusable until repairs are completed. They can then take whatever action they deem expedient.

 

As it happens, I doubt that they'll care much as you're clearly a young and keen student.

 

Well done for spotting the damage though - seeing the damage and taking the item out of use was indeed the right thing to do.

[nothingatall666]

the PAT sticker is not clear. all the LX were tested in march 2007 (this means they are due for another test, I believe the school doesn't think that the lamps are being used. therefore want to 'save' money

It is entirely possible for damage to occur immediately after the tester leaves the building. Depending on who did the damage, they may have either not noticed it happen, or tried to hide the damage.

 

this is where I stress that no one else has or could touch the lamps. they are in the middle of the hall over 10M high.

 

I admit that on my first post where I seemed to have acussed hawthorns for the damage. this I did not mean to do. I was going through the possibility's of how such damage could occur, my use of English was terrible.

where I said 'this puts the blame on hawthorns' I should have been more considerate. saying 'could the hire company have made a mistake'

I have had many fantastic experiences with hawthorns, their staff have been kind enough to have taught me alot about lighting.

I always recommend to others.

 

your duty was to inform your teachers and to mark the item as unusable until repairs are completed.

this is not my duty at all. not my given one anyway, I am (in a sence) the schools customer, it is there duty to be sure I am safe and secure. however as I am a keen student, and I feel that if no one else would notice, I made sure I checked all the lamps that where taken down.

 

I will be speaking to the Head of Drama tomorrow, advising her to book another PAT test for all the lamps.

 

still. there is a moral from this, which is to keep checking everything. however little use it gets ;)

 

 

thanks folks!

[Light Console]

As I understand it, everything should on site should be tested, or if considered to be currently "out of service", made so by removal of the plug/fuse. Some clients have provided me with a box of plastic plug covers and padlocks for just this reason. Anything that is discovered after the testing is completed should be considered failed, and removed from use, until it is tested.

 

If you ever see me rig a lantern, you will see that I run my hand along the entire length of cable to check for any faults, whilst hooking the lantern onto the bar. As you say, but can't easily do in your current situation, regular visual checks are very important.

[thelxbloke]

*snip*

 

this is not my duty at all. not my given one anyway, I am (in a sence) the schools customer, it is there duty to be sure I am safe and secure. however as I am a keen student, and I feel that if no one else would notice, I made sure I checked all the lamps that where taken down.

 

*snip*

 

As a user of the equipment you may notice things that the owners may not notice if they do not have regular contact with it. It does happen, even in most if not all venues that not everyone looks at every item.

 

It's one of the first things you learn, if you notice somthing (anything, it doesn't need to be your responsibility, be it an emergancy exit sign, or a carpet tile, if it's broken and/or dangerous it should be reported to the person responsible, after all you may not be the first person who notices it, but that means it hasn't been fixed yet and reporting it will bring it to the front of that persons mind.

 

Regards

 

Steve