BigYinUK Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Hi All We've been booked to play an outdoor gig in a big field (see attached pic). Its a rock gig for about 250 bikers. What would you use to get a decent SPL ? Note that there are no neighbour issues unless you count the town 3 miles away. I really want to get this right and do doubt that our little Mackie pa is going to hack it. http://www3.mistral.co.uk/jon-norris/location.jpg tx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Cain Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 My quickest response would be to contact some of the guys here who deal with hiring noise kit. They should be able to help, spec, hire and op kit for you... HTH AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundiesam Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 where is? what is it? how much you wanna spend? who is playing? erm theres so many questions rolling out here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigYinUK Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 Questions are good..... Its in Sussex, near Billingshurst. The people putting it on don't particularly want to pay anything for it as they don't have any money. I don't want to do it unless we do it properly as if it sounds c**p it'll get us a bad name and discredit the event in general. Personally I hate not doing things properly, hence the post. We did last year's event with our 2 x Mackie SR1530s. Although this also was outdoors it was in a really small space unlike this huge field. Comments from people (who's views I trust) was that it was only barely loud enough and stuff was missing from the mix as we hadn't the capacity to mike everything. I took a trip out in the crowd on my radio guitar thingy and was not impressed. We have most of what we need, its really just how much power we'll need FOH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Cain Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 speak to someone like Rob Beech. He the man.... can help you with ideas, and kit possibly... AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigYinUK Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 speak to someone like Rob Beech. He the man.... can help you with ideas, and kit possibly... He certainly is...hopefully he'll be along soon/later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Another vote for asking Rob Beach both for kit hire and advice. He seems very knowledgeable and competent in what he does. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Someone call? The questions do roll in, and will continue to roll in. First of all, you need to look at the area you ACTUALLY need to cover. My guess is this certainly isn't going to be the entire field, not for 250 people. You can cut down on the system requirements by putting people into a smaller (but not cramped) area. If you allow them to wander freely within the entire area and expect to hear it properly then you will need a substantial system that will all told be unsuitable for the gig anyway. Since there is little or no budget it makes it extremely difficult to give any idea of what you could put in. For 250 people you may well get away with 4 stacks of your general old school (and some newer, and often some still current) PA. Something such as 4 stacks of Turbo floodlight/Aspect wide EAW KF850, Even D&B C7 if you must. The list is endless, these are just examples. It's not going to shake you to the floor at the back of the field but it stands a chance of being audible, clean, and at a moderate level to a suitable area (designed to comfortably sit 250 people). So if this would suit, you can have a hunt and see what prices you can get, don't be fooled into thinking that the companies local to you will be cheapest, it's been known that a company 200 miles away can provide the system cheaper including delivery. The next issue is power. How much of it have you got, and where is it? Unless there is a building with a usable supply within a few 10's of metres away then it's generator time. And a larger system will require a larger generator than the 2 mackies. You say you didn't have the channels to mic everything up last time. Things that got lost in the mix then would do so even more with a larger system as their acoustic noise cannot keep up. A bigger desk to hire? more mics? both? Monitors? the larger systems are much more directional, and you get very little from the rear of the boxes (excluding LF) so you may need monitoring, or additional monitoring. All in all, you have to weigh up whether its easier / cheaper / more efficient / better overall to hire in a company to do it all, or to hire in the kit and do it yourself, often the former of the 2 is the easiest, and the price difference can sometimes be lower than you think. If your budget really is £ZERO then short of a local hire company feeling generous / wanting extra publicity / both, I think you'll struggle. ...and Josh.... its ee not ea ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirch Sound Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 If your budget really is £ZERO then short of a local hire company feeling generous / wanting extra publicity / both, I think you'll struggle. I think you have hit the nail on the head here rob. I get plenty of calls from people asking if I would like some "free advertising." In otherwords provide the whole event with noise in return for sticking up a few posters, and I have to admit im usualy quite tempted by the larger envents, mainly from an experience point of view, as I love nice big outdoor events. However you have to remeber, even if you do find a company who will provide you with sound for the gig, you still need to get your power sorted out. Your not going to get many companys that will pay for generator hire and petrol just to stick a few posters up along with providing you with a pa system. All I can reccomend is to ring around a few sound companys, or see if you can get anyone who might be interested in sponsering you, its worth a try, and to be blunt, its about your only chance with ZERO budget. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndenim Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 I don't mean to be blunt, but how can anyone REALLY help with this post? The OP's question was basically, what kind of spl's would I need?If the equipment is not available anyway, it makes no difference what advice you get. I think we have ascertained that the mackies (although a very nice cab) are not up to the job on their own.I would suggest if you have any mates in bands or know anyone who owns some gear, to lend you their kit and setup your FOH cabs(mackies) and maybe have some satellite cabs set out about half way towards the audience. Hope it goes well, keep BR posted. John denim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhuson Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 I'd just like to comment on sponsorship from a hire companies point of view. You may or may not be quite surprised at just how often people ask for kit cheap or for free in return for sponsorship. If we were to meet all these requests we'd be very quickly out of business. What you also have to remember is that the purpose of sponsorship essentially is advertising on the sponsors part, no company in their right mind is going to spend money on advertising that isn't likely to reach it's target audience. So you have to ask yourself how many of the 250 people attending this bikers event are likely to need the services of an audio hire company? I suspect the answer will be very few people. Sorry to be the source of doom & gloom but I wouldn't hold out much hope of getting sponsorship, of course there is no harm in trying! I do admire the fact that your not prepared to do the show if it's not done properly but the reality is this is going to cost money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 The OP's question was what do I need to get a decent spl, rather than what spl do I need. I agree with John and Johns points though. We can assume that they'd like to see (hear) low to mid 90's at the mix position for it to be a reasonable level in the area infront of this without being too loud and without expecting too much of the system / requiring a much larger system (remember in the mid and particularly high frequencies you need to double your boxes to get a mere 3dB where no coupling is occuring) so you can quite quickly get through a few boxes and amps if it's not loud enough. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightsource Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Totally agree with what Rob, Sirch_Sound and Johndenim have said..... We did a very similar gig to this (A 3 day bikers fest at the Easter weekend). 2 bands per night + disco till 1am. The venue was a Marquee tent with a capacity of about 500, but only about 200 actually turned up. Our FOH rig was 4x Mackie 1801 subs, and 4x JBL JRX125, powered by a QSC PLX1602. The other 2 PLX's were used for mons and drum fill. All speakers were over 132dB SPL, and it was just about right, although I would have personally liked a bit more. The main point though, is that the hirer (a charity) had a budget in excess of £ 3000. The generator on it's own was £ 1200, and We weren't far short of that figure either for the 3 days........Plus there was the cost of the Marquee, the staff and the bands. Why is the budget for you're gig so small.It would help to get a better understanding of the circumstances. The people putting it on don't particularly want to pay anything for it as they don't have any money. I think that really sums it up....... Simply, don't do what you can't afford......... Why should people like ourselves pick up the 'tab' for those who have short arms and deep pockets..... Put a realistic quote in for time and gear required, and if they don't like it, they've probably learned a valuable lesson. It would be nice if I could go into a car showroom, and 'borrow' a Ferrari F40 for the day, as I don't have the money to pay for it........ Different industry, same answer. Edit to add, Both Rob and Jonn sneaked a quick post in while I was typing my reply....... Rob..... Yes, but SPL's need a budget. Johnhuson..... Get it all the time...... Once you say no.....the budget seems to miracouously come out of nowhere ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Back in the day, the band I were in played for the Stalybridge Motorcycle Club annual bash, on a hill, on a windy day, the wind that had already ripped the (hired) marquee to shreads, using our normal indoor PA, and there were a fair few bikers present, everyone had a good time. It wasn't as loud as it was in a pub but it were good enough. If funds are limited, thats what you'll have to do... http://www.stalybridgemotorcycleclub.co.uk/images/logo.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 I agree with all the points raised you can't do a show like this without some sort of budget but would like to add to help the Big yin out he will need at least 8-10 k out front a decent monitoring system and at least 16 channels on the desk, also a covered position for front of house mix not a gazebo, I was using one on monday when the heavens opened all it did was filter the rain good job had a tarp in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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