Mobile Palco3 issue

[jasonlighting]

I got a question for you all, I see you have solved problems in the past the SGM website couldn't help with before.

 

I've been teching the Mobile Palco3's and recently have run into a data isse.

 

When testing I used 4x mobiles, 3-pin DMX cables (which we need to do instead of 5 based on our cable inventory) and a pilot 3000 console. All 4 lights are chained properly and addresses are set to 1.

 

When I went to make them all move, I had no movement except for the first one in the chain that decided to move it's own way, and light up without my controling it. After the basic troubleshooting here's what I came up with:

 

When connected straight to the board, each fixture worked fine all by itself. When I started chaining them the [sign=] menu went from DMX to rs232. Now I'm not used to rs232, I understand it's an older binary type of coding, but I don't understand what would cause a Palco to read that when it's output is connected. the [sign=RS232] menu is solid so I can't change it back to DMX. When I chain the Palcos the LAST one in the chain always works (or at least 1 out of 4) but the others don't respond. I also had one Palco flashing back and forth between DMX and RS232, and when I botted these 4 up this morning, I got a "signal error" message that never popped up again.

 

Can anyone describe to me why a palco would change from DMX to rs232 and if possible how to troubleshoot and or fix this problem? ie. is the error in the fixture, console or my sleep deprived brain?

 

Thanks guys!

[johnnie]

I'm no expert... but...

 

You say all the lights are addressed as '1', surely you would need to have set different addresses for each light?

 

As I said I'm no expert, but this is just a guess

[peternewman]

The address shouldn't matter at all Johnnie, DMX isn't a bi-directional signal, so one light won't know what address the others are set to.

 

I've just had a look through the manual and there aren't any actual diagrams of the connectors, but does it have both 3 and 5 pin XLRs? The manual says that DMX is on 5 pin, so I wonder if the 3 pin is only for RS232 using Tx, Rx and Gnd. Are you using 3-3 cables or 3-3 cables and 3-5/5-3 adaptors? I'd suggest trying the fixtures using the 5 pin connections.

[niclights]

The fixtures have only one set of connectors which are trailing to achieve IP rating.

 

Are you able to manually change the SIGN back to DMX?

 

My only thought is that one or all of the fixtures are set to master/slave and this is conflicting with the reception of data.

[Ben]

ok, you have a few possible problems here, firstly make sure all are running the same and ideally the latest software versio,, secondly obvious but make sure none of the cables are audio ones or have the cores inverted as this can cause this error.

 

Assuming both those are ok: The problem is normally to do with the common in the unit, the 2 trailing DMX connectors connect together in the unit and are not processed it is a strait pass through so its possible that the one unit at the start of the chain is the problem, try swapping which unit is first and see how they respond with different combinations of the units as this problem in one unit will echo down the line in both directions.

 

It is also possible for the PCB to be faulty as there are some resistors and diodes that could cause an error liek this but its very rare.

 

Chances are the problem is the connectors on the unit or a break in the trailign cable coinign out the unit.

 

If after checking this you still have problems let me know.

 

Ben

 

Oh and for reference I am an expert on these units (and all the SGM ones) :unsure:

[jasonlighting]

The Palcos we have here have 2 tails, they're 3-pin, which I believe was custom made for us. the only 3-5 adaptor I was using was going out of the console and it couldn't be that because every one of the lights works perfectly fine when connected only to the board.

 

With addresses, no they don't matter, I set them to 1 because we set all our fixtures to 1 when we prep. (unless we're pre-addressing). I set them all to 1 so they all respond the same, ie their movement speeds should be the same, as well as brightness ect.

 

I did swap the fixtures around No matter what the order of the chain, the only fixture that works properly is the last on the chain, because it has nothing connected to it's output. The moment a cable (and I used many) clicks into the output tail it changes from DMX to RS232, and no unfortunately I cannot change this setting manually, it's more of an info line in the fixture instead of a scrollable menu.

 

I'll try some more troubleshooting today and see what I come up with, I'm starting to agree with the software thing. We're aware some of the fixtures need to be updated, we're getting the hardware needed from SGM right now.

 

If you can think of anything else I'd really appreciate it but I will let you know what I find.

 

Thanks for the help.

[Stuart91]

The Palcos we have here have 2 tails, they're 3-pin, which I believe was custom made for us.

 

Is there a chance that one of your tails (more likely the output one) is wired out of polarity?

[jasonlighting]

The Palcos we have here have 2 tails, they're 3-pin, which I believe was custom made for us.

 

Is there a chance that one of your tails (more likely the output one) is wired out of polarity?

 

 

Not likely, we've had these fixtures since last summer and they've been performing very well on all our shows. But a bit of advice to all, they don't hang well sideways when on tour, at least with motor version 1.4 and below, the tilt motor gets mangled somehow.

 

But none of the fixtures have had their tails modified in any way, because I believe that would void the warranty.

[Trundle]

Im pretty sure Palcos come with the different Tails on them.

[jasonlighting]

Im pretty sure Palcos come with the different Tails on them.

 

 

They do but you order them that way I believe. My company ordered them with 3-pin tails, because we don't actually have enough 5-pin to run on a show except for some of our older gear that only has 5-pin.

[Ben]

Just one thing, make sure the cable is not audio cable or low voltage birdy stuff as that will do this every time.

 

The hardware you say you are waiting for is just a cable you can make yourself, I used to make them for anyone in the UK who needed them as they are very simple if you want to wiring diagram let me know and I will dig out the ones I have.

 

The software should not cause the problems you are having this is going to be a cable problem.

[jasonlighting]

<br />Just one thing, make sure the cable is not audio cable or low voltage birdy stuff as that will do this every time.<br /><br />The hardware you say you are waiting for is just a cable you can make yourself, I used to make them for anyone in the UK who needed them as they are very simple if you want to wiring diagram let me know and I will dig out the ones I have.<br /><br />The software should not cause the problems you are having this is going to be a cable problem.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

Well it's for sure not the jumper 3-pins we're using, they work perfectly fine on every other fixture, including our MAC 500, 600, 250 and 700 fixtures. I'm pretty sure this problem is internal, I think you're right however. This one fixture was on tour with Blue Rodeo, the tech on this tour was skilled but still a newbie like myself, he may have attempted to rewire a tail, or may have mistaken another error for a wiring error. Unfortunately me cracking open the fixture is going to void the warrenty. So we're sending them to SF marketing in Quebec to get repaired (as well as others with tilt problems) they all have older serial numbers so they probably need to be upgraded.

 

I'll let you know what the results are in about a week.