mic cues

[casey1202]

Does anyone know if there is sotware or desks thats makes making mic cues easy for theatre work.

I am using 12 mics and it can be tricky remembering the cues. :P

[gherriott]

Hey there,

 

Not quite sure what you are after here, are you after software that will control the desk to bring in and take out mics according to a cue list, or are you after something like excel where you can type up a cue list for you to follow?

[Big Jay]

1. Should this be in the sound forum instead of lighting?

 

2. All you need to do is a make a spread sheet, including

 

*song

*mic number

*character

 

It may be wrong but it works for me and I dont think software can make it easier than this.

 

Moderation: Topic moved to sound

[Paul J Need]

Does anyone know if there is sotware or desks thats makes making mic cues easy for theatre work.

I am using 12 mics and it can be tricky remembering the cues. :P

 

YAMAHA O1V for example, 16-24 channels, perfect for recording cues, and you can even play them back in a preset time.

 

The EQ, effects and routing are also stored with each recorded cue.

[Bobbsy]

When doing theatre work I ALWAYS have a script marked up with all my mic cues. I give myself a standby about a half page before a cue then mark the actual cue with line to an exact word or action. The cue also includes an indication of the level I want to bring the fader to.

 

So...half a page before the cue there will be something like:

 

S/B 3, 12, 13

 

Then at the cue will be something like:

 

UP 3 (-10), 12 (-5) 13 (-5)

 

I also include reminders of where I want to dip some mics for a spoken passage or whatever and, very important, another reminder of when to turn OFF mics.

 

I do this even when using a board with preset memories, the only difference being that the cues in the script will also include a note of the memory number.

 

I should say that, once I'm properly rehearsed, the script is more of an aide memoire than something I have to follow slavishly--typically I'll constantly be thumbing a page or two ahead to remind myself what's coming, but having everything written out is a great safety feature.

 

It also makes it possible for your A2 to take over when your wife sends a message mid show saying she's gone into labour...but that's another story!

 

Bob

[Shez]

I use a selection of different coloured highlighters in the script. One colour for playback cues, one for mic on cues and one for mic off cues. Works for me as it's very easy to see at a glance what's coming up without having to actually read any text. The details are obviously written in too (underneath the highlights).

Only thing to be wary of is the colour of the light on the script - if it's blue gelled, the colours all look different...

[casey1202]

Hey there,

 

Not quite sure what you are after here, are you after software that will control the desk to bring in and take out mics according to a cue list, or are you after something like excel where you can type up a cue list for you to follow?

 

 

Well if you know of spoftware thatwould control a desk thatwould be fab :P

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Does anyone know if there is sotware or desks thats makes making mic cues easy for theatre work.

I am using 12 mics and it can be tricky remembering the cues. ;)

 

YAMAHA O1V for example, 16-24 channels, perfect for recording cues, and you can even play them back in a preset time.

 

The EQ, effects and routing are also stored with each recorded cue.

 

 

 

I have an o1v how do you record the cues and thanks for your reply

[dbuckley]

If you have a desk that accepts MIDI commands, then you can use any half-decent show control software for the job. That same software can also do your playbacks as well. Then you can just work your way down the cue list.

 

A digital desk is best, of course, but a analogue desk with MIDI mutes is half way there. Digital desks usually allow tedious levels of control via MIDI, and its a place that I bet most 01V users have never wandered, except by accident :P

 

Also worth remembering that just about every digital effects unit ever made also support MIDI control, so you can change your FX unit presets automatically too.

[paulears]

I always do very similar to what Bob said - with the small addition that every few pages I write in big print at the top of the page all mics that are currently supposed to be on! Where entrances and exits have been made in busy sections, I find it really useful to be able to quickly check the right ones are on.

 

If you really must automate, then I'd go for mute automation, leaving fader levels something to be done manually. I have an early Yamaha digital mixer that has really powerful fader motors that fight with you. They're touch sensitive so should let you manually adjust them, but sometimes they want to go up, and I want to go down. Mutes as and when people come on and go off is much more handy. Yamaha tend to do snapshots so it's a case of recording a scene, the another and then another a bit like a lighting desk.

[Bobbsy]

I always do very similar to what Bob said - with the small addition that every few pages I write in big print at the top of the page all mics that are currently supposed to be on! Where entrances and exits have been made in busy sections, I find it really useful to be able to quickly check the right ones are on.

 

Snap! I do exactly the same. Especially where several mics were opened on a previous page, I'll put a list of the ones that should still be open across the top of the next page. The other thing I'll do is, for scenes where there is line by line mixing, put the mic number at the head of literally every line.

 

One place where I work a bit differently to paulears is on the use of mute automation: i.e. I don't use it. With the flying fader automation available on an 01V, I tend to programme a half second fade in/fade out for every on/off cue. I find this avoids the nasty "popping in" sound where an actor jumps his cue or decides to clear his throat before starting to sing. I also tend to programme the preset levels to be around 5dB less than the rehearsed nominal level, then quickly adjust the mix by ear. This is on the theory that somebody coming in just slightly quiet is far less objectionable than a blast of something too loud if the actor decides to "belt it".

 

If you're using an 01V96, you don't need any external software to control the mixer. Using scene presets is covered in Chapter 15 of the manual, but basically just set the scene how you want to store it, go to the preset area on the control surface, use the up and down arrow keys to select the scene number you want to use. Hit the Store button. At this point you can enter a scene name if you want (I rarely do) or just hit "Okay". I would read up the whole section in the manual though...and also have a look at the "Recall Safe" section, especially if you will be using auxes for monitors or whatever.

 

Finally, just to add, don't assume you can just use a preset to open 12 mics then sit there listening. On theatre work you'll be pretty much continuously mixing, tweaking levels, favouring a short solo line, mixing line by line when two actors are close together for a love ballad, etc. etc. It's busy...but fun.

 

Bob

[d_korman]

I do the same as Bobbsy too.

 

Doing Funny Girl next week - 18 radio mics, 3 PCC floats and maybe some short shotguns hanging behind the US legs. Plus a few SFx for good measure (using Sound Cue System). All on a GL2800 so no automation.

 

Should be quite a busy show!

[casey1202]

I do the same as Bobbsy too.

 

Doing Funny Girl next week - 18 radio mics, 3 PCC floats and maybe some short shotguns hanging behind the US legs. Plus a few SFx for good measure (using Sound Cue System). All on a GL2800 so no automation.

 

Should be quite a busy show!

 

What Mics do you reccomend and does each mic have its own frequency. I saw a show recently and the sound guy had a shark fin ariel type thing what is this for...Sorry Im still learning about this...

[paulears]

Well, it's usually personal preference for the system - in fairness most of the big players have excellent products. Microphone choice is different. Professional vs amateur use makes a difference. I don't mean quality of performer, but how you use them. Much is down to cost. Somebody has to decide how many channels you can afford. Somebody has to decide how many channels you need. In a big budget show solving this one is easy - one each. In the real world, much more difficult. If somebody only has one line in the entire show, do they get one? How about if character A is in Act 1 but not in Act 2, but character B is in Act 2, but not in Act 1? Easy - do a swap at the interval and save money. Swaps in budget strapped productions are common.

My own way of sorting it is to use microsoft excel. I have all the characters across the top, and page numbers downwards. Then I go through the script and mark where people have lines. Once its done, you can see where the gaps are. Then, you can see how swaps work. From time to time it fails as you may miss the fact that somebody is on stage with a line on page 20, and doesn't have another till page 40 - BUT doesn't exit.

 

Very often at this point you will say to the producer/director/money people we MUST have 14. They say no way - 12 is all we can afford. At that point, you can then offer a suggestion as who to cross off the list. Sometimes they'll say no - they are vital, other times, they'll suggest alternatives if they have somebody minor with a big voice. Eventually, you get there.

 

So you have the list, next is microphone choice. What is the show? If it's a rock and roll show with loud volume on stage, you need mics really close in to the mouth. So a boom mic that clips around the back of the head and bends towards the mouth and is very discrete is the usual solution. If you want something less visible, then as long as on stage level is lower, (and the talent can actually sing and project) then a hairline mic is fine - centre forehead or bottom of sideburn height is ok. You have to stick it down - plenty of comment on how in other topics. Most mics come with a clip which many people use to clip the mic to clothes, ties, jackets etc. In a TV studio where it's quiet, they are fine. Maybe for a straight play they are ok - BUT in virtually all use in theatre, the mics are omni-directional - simply because pointing a cardioid at somebodies mouth is quite difficult. Cardioid small mics do exist and for some uses are excellent - but mostly omnis are best. Clipping a mic onto the body away from the mouth does mean it picks up anything, not just the wanted sound - so doing a song at the front of the stage with a band in the pit giving it a bit of wellie is going to fail - the quiet voice will lose out to the loud instruments - hence why getting the mics in close is essential.

 

You can buy - and this is another well thumbed topic - the cheap CPC flesh colour headset mics and they are really quite good for less than £40, and an almost identical DPA ones (well, they look similar, but do sound better) are ten times as much. Size does matter - some are tiny, some are like big warts - your choice.

 

If you hire in systems from the usual suppliers, they will come with mics and often alternatives could be available - but you have to ask.

[Bobbsy]

Paulears has given a very good summary of how to prepare, but just to answer a couple of your specific questions:

 

First, each transmitter/receiver pair absolutely MUST have their own frequency. Most major brands of radio mic are adjustable across a fairly wide range of frequencies and need to be tuned individually to act as pairs. It's not a simple as just tuning to frequencies every 200 megahertz or whatever...due to a phenomenon called harmonics, certain frequencies interfere with each other even though they appear to be well separated. You also have to consider that some frequencies are legal to use and some not. A reputable hire company should provide you, at very least, with a frequency plan and the necessary license--and hopefully the mics will be pre-tuned to channels that work together. It's worth discussing this with the hire company.

 

As for the "shark fin" there were actually probably at least two of these acting as antennae for all the receivers in use. In a diversity system, since each receiver has 2 antennae, a 12 channel system would actually have 24 antennae sticking out every which way if you just used the telescopic things on the front of the receivers. Clearly this isn't practical, so the norm is to have two specialist antennae (the "shark fins") running to a system of splitters in the radio mic rack. There may also be signal boosters near the antennae to compensate for the losses in the splitters.

 

Now, at the risk of giving an answer you don't want, I have to say that, from the questions you're asking, I'd strongly recommend that you find somebody who's worked with 12-ish radio mics before who can work with you and help you through all the details and "wrinkles" of doing this sort of thing. Having somebody you can learn from the first time you do it will greatly ease your stress factor and improve the end result. Even basic stuff like how to mount the mics and transmitters can catch you out if you've never done it before. Similarly, there's lots of little helpful tricks on the actual mixing.

 

Bob