Low prices

[Guest lightnix]

Just received my gratis copy of Access All Areas this morning and had my attention grabbed by a small article on page 9 by Graham Langley-Jones, MD of the Thorns Group, entitled What price survival ?. Although the authour comes from the world of "hospitality services" the comments he makes are, I feel, deeply relevant to the entertainment business as a whole and echo many of my own sentiments on the subject. Here are a few quotes...

 

"... the entire events and exhibitions sector has seen its profits squeezed by relentless pressure to keep prices at a bare minimum... margins are under attack... through growing competition or because the customer believes they can effectively name their price. While these pressures are inevitable in a competitive business world, there's a danger that we will become blind to the long term impact... on our industry.

"... there is a danger that the industry itself will suffer... companies are forced to look merely at the present rather than planning for the future... we're in danger of seeing our sector stagnate... it will be the end user who suffers as standards... begin to decline.

"Customers must be prepared to pay higher prices... [for] top quality products [and] ... the very best levels of service.

"We also need to move away from the short term culture...

"There is an obligation on both sides... to be realistic... Unless we take a sensible approach we are all likely to suffer..."

 

It has struck me several times in recent years that the seemingly unremitting downward pressure on prices is doing nobody any good at all. There seems to be a very negative self-image dominating the business as a whole these days, what was once a pround Profession is being reduced to the status of a mere Trade, often by the people who work in it.

 

There is no crime in profit, no sin in making money. It's what you do with it that counts.

 

Discuss...

[MikeR]

I'm with you on this one. Though I haven't seen a downwards trend in day rates etc for freelancers (though expenses is a different thing altoghether) I haven't seen a price increase for two to three years either. Margins on kit hire have been reduced to such an extent that I rarely bother supplying kit anymore, the inherent problems and responsibilities being such that it's no longer worth the effort. Instead I will write a kit spec and furnish the client with a set of quotes from various suppliers who I am happy to work with. In terms of riggers I have seen rigging companies drop the rates they pay their crews while raising the rates they charge with a concomittant degradation in service quality. This has also had the effect of forcing some of the older more experienced riggers out into the market place and some have set up new "co operative" style companies. These companies have taken on business and so there seems to be some hope there in as much as the production companies etc are prepared to pay the higher (in reality continued) rates in exchange for known quality. It does seem that the marketplace has become stagnant and the work levels overall have dropped. Amongst my particular group of peers I am confident that none of us are going to start undercutting each other to get work as we are all reasonably mature and understand the side effects of doing so. I know several, myself included, who have been asked and have refused to drop rates. The crux of the problem I feel is that the end clients are for the large parts experiencing reduced budgets and uncertain futures and until that problem is cured this situation will continue. Unfortunately I don't see any way that the likes of us can influence the problem at source and so all we can do is hold fast and maintain the mantra that money buys quality.

[peter]

Whilst not wanting to detract from this thread, members may also find it interesting to read this topic from a few months ago.

[MikeR]

HAving just read the other thread Peter pointed to I have to say I am even more in agreement with Lightnix comments both general and specific in both threads. I have never walked out on a show but I have been close. Always the same reasons, as identified in that thread - stupid hours ( my average day is probably round about 16 hours) under resourced shows (kit and / or crew), crew catering provided - ah yes stale hotel sandwiches and bottles of fizzy water (if yer lucky). One thing that concerns me is that this board is awash with students and the like all asking how to break in. My advice would be DON'T. If I had my time again I wouldn't. Those that persevere and do get into this way of life MUST take a lead from the old lags I think and not work for perverse rates and not let them selves or others be undervalued and so devalued long term. I think they should also look at what they want longterm. Because this lifestyle can so easily be a shortcut to death on the A1 after an 18 hour day, divorce and a myriad of other messes. Having said all that I have a flight to Bahrain on Monday for yet another gig though I'm beginning to think I'm getting too long in the tooth for all this. :** laughs out loud **:

[gareth]

Excellent points from 'Nix and Mike there ....

 

It's very true that margins are getting squeezed to within an inch of their lives ... twice in the last six months I've had a corporate job fall through at the last minute, due to another supplier undercuttng by a considerable amount. They seem do this in order to secure new clients, but what these clients don't seem to grasp is that fact that this rock-bottom pricing isn't sustainable, and that once the client is snared by the supplier the prices will go up regardless.

 

Regarding Mike's point about new people breaking into the industry - I have to admit, a similar thought had occured to me. How many of these young people are mistakenly envisaging a glamorous future in the glitzy world of showbusiness, instead of the hard slog of long days, relatively low pay and endless red tape that will inevitably be the reality which they end up facing? The only sensible way to go into this business, in my opinion, is with your eyes open, fully aware of what you're getting into - otherwise you're in for a rather nasty surprise ....

[Jivemaster]

PLASA industry research has stated the risks to business of the current financial situation and stated that several big companies are quoting below cost to put off the day of reckoning. One fair sized Co from Hull area was liquidated recently, more will go.

[gareth]

PLASA industry research has stated the risks to business of the current financial situation and stated that several big companies are quoting below cost to put off the day of reckoning.  One fair sized Co from Hull area was liquidated recently, more will go.

Do you have a URL for the results of the PLASA research?

[Stu]

Just my 2p's worth...

 

As someone who is reasonably young, and therefore has got a pretty long future ahead of me (hopefully), I'm quite frankly appalled by the way at alot of people in this business are treated.

 

This business attracts alot of people who basically are in love with the job and business, lets face it there has to be something to make you want to work in the conditions we can do, and put up with the money many of us don't recieve.

 

And the problem with this above statement is many people high up in the land of the suits know this. They think we are quite happy to put up with all the rubbish for the 'love of the job/art' which in my opinion is total bull. Why should we (or anyone for that fact) have to be paid a pittance for a job we/they love - in fact we have one over alot of people in this country as we are doing a job we love, so this is indeed a plus point.

 

People fear for their jobs (freelance / casual) if they speak out against the system as management could take offence to this and decide not to call you again simply because you've made a fuss about trying to get enough money together to live!

 

Which brings me neatly onto the Management. Now it's very hard to compare jobs of two very different people, but I think it's fair to say that in our own ways, we both experience our fair share of hard days, be it in trying to run a Professional Theatre or simply getting the shows up on time. I expect we could argue all day and night about who exactly recieves more stress in the working week, but I'm sure it can't be that different. Yet people at the top of the cherry tree are getting paid huge amounts per annum to do their job. And a Theatre Technician is lucky to get anything more than £15k. And who's the first group of people to have their overtime cut when the money runs out........ Yep you've guessed it. Even less money for a crew who have very little to start off with. Yet alot of venues are quite happy to waste money all the time than buy a few things the crew are begging for to make their job safer...

 

Of course the moment you and the rest of the crew start to get unhappy in a venue, you get a serious problem. The worse thing you can have in a workplace is depressed staff. You can basically wave goodbye to any sort of want/willingness for a long, long time.... People no longer want to be at work (I know I don't) and therefore this comes across to visiting companies (unless you happen to be good at hiding it) and then your venue gets a bad reputation. Or either that Management find out you've been having a constructive moan to memebers of the visiting companies (perhaps trying to pass on the blame for why the equipment is a load of #####) and you get bollocked for this too. You can't win - they don't want to listen --- so what else are you meant to do?!?!! In fact you can only hope the visiting company will complain so something can be done about it.

 

It seems to me (no actually I know this) that the Technicians are the unlucky souls left at the bottom of the pile, who have to pick up the remaining threads of the budget, wages, equipment etc once the all important ( :** laughs out loud **:) parts of the Theatre, the bar, cafe etc have had their fair vulture.

 

Theatres out there are happy to pay stoopid amounts for their staff (have a look in The Stage!), and then wonder why they can't get the quality staff they are looking for to fill the positions. And while this is going on (for months sometimes) the exisiting staff have to solider on and attempt to do the work with less staff, which could eventually one day lead to an accident.

 

So, something, somewhere along the lines is going horribly wrong. Can anyone else out there think of an industry where a trained, skilled worker would be paid such a pittance and treated so badly in many cases? I certainly can't think of any.

 

The only problem is what is there to do for someone like me, who's young, is going to eventually want a house/family etc, going to do for money. I have thought about, in time, having my own Lighting Hire Company or similar, but to be quite frank, I don't think I'll bother. All the small boys seem to spend alot of time building up a nice selection of kit etc only to have a big company come along and snatch their contracts/clients for half the money. What is the point of hiring things out etc at less than a break even price?!

 

Basically, as much as I love my job, I really wish I hadn't got involved, and I SERIOUSLY say to anyone out there to give this 'career' some serious thoughts before you get too involved, and it's too late... Don't think you'll be able to put up it, and that money isn't important, because it is. And it's not like we're asking for lots....

 

Sorry for War n' Peace boys and girls

Stu

[MikeR]

Thinking aoud, one possible means of addressing the situation to a small degree ( & I realise this doesnt directly affect employed people as opposed to freelancers) is to institute a code of practice by which freelancers will operate. I am not talking about anything appoximating a union just simply a set of standard requirements before a contract is accepted. Obviously much easier to talk about than to implement. It should address minimum wages and maximum hours, it should address areas like travel, expenses and accomodation. If it was adhered to, in a perfect world , it would become impossible (eventually) to hire crew outside of the minimum requirements. Having said that theres always someoen that will break rank but hopefully over time the weight of numbers involved would force a sea change. For my own part for example I always work for companies who I know will treat crews in the right way. When I am PMing I stipulate how my crew will be treated and what will be provided for them. When talking to new clients re potential work I state upfront what my requirements / stipulations are. (for eg £X per day , X hours in a day, I dont share hotel rooms, I dont do free travel days and I dont drive other peoples vehicles). I have lost work this way but I am lucky perhaps to have been doing this long enough for this not to matter and I take the view that if the client doesnt accept the stipulations I don't want the job anyway. If there was a basic tech charter by which everyone would abide then it appears to me that one day in the long distant future we may have a proper industry inhabited by a skilled and professional workforce rather than the fly b'night operators that are so prevalent at the moment. Apologies for having hijacked the thread as my own personal venting ground.

[gareth]

If only it was practical to implement your idea, Mike - I very much agree with what you say, but I just can't see it happening. (Well, perhaps over a very long period of time, but certainly not within a timescale that would directly benefit most of us who are working as freelancers at the present time.)

 

As you say, the problem is that there will always be the "fly by night" merchants who will be happy to do the odd freelance job for whatever is on offer, however paltry that may be. Usually, these are the people who have regular employment elsewhere, but take a few short freelance engagements here and there for a bit of extra cash on the side. These people don't rely on freelance work to pay the bills and feed their families, they have their day job for that - so thet aren't really going to mind that their occasional freelance jobs don't pay what most of us would consider to be a reasonable going rate.

 

As a matter of interest, what's your reasoning for not driving other companies' vehicles? There are many freelance jobs that I've done over the years which I wouldn't have got if I specified that particular condition (doing one tomorrow, as it happens!) ...

 

Edit : I should point out that the above comments are not directed at everyone who combines a steady job with occasional freelance work - only those who seem to treat it as some kind of 'paid hobby' and are happy to work for little more than beer money ...

[Martin]

In fact you can only hope the visiting company will complain so something can be done about it.

Sadly this is often the case. Things have to get really bad before they can get better. As we found out a couple of years ago. Fortunately things are looking much better now.

 

A good way of getting things done is, if you can :** laughs out loud **: , physically take the management round the theatre pointing out all the dodgy things that need attention. You'd be surprised how quickly money can be found, when confronted this way. For example we are shortly getting some caged cat ladders for our box booms, which will make it much easier and safer to rig and focus. Although having said that, I guess that it could backfire and they could impose an awkward solution.

 

The battle for better pay is of course not so easy. Generally requiring lots of negotiation, that is if you can get them to talk to begin with.

 

Interesting thread, lots of good points and some, understandably, bitter people :** laughs out loud **:

[Big Dave]

From my recent experience, things are starting to change albeit slowly. I know some of my clients are still happy to do jobs for less money than they would of done a few years ago but now they very much giving the end client what they pay for. No more same show as before but for half the price. They are just having to be more inventive in their offerings.

 

Can really comment on full time technicians - but you won't be a tech all your life but for freelance people if you don't like what a certain company is doing there is a simple solution, don't work for them. There are companies out there who do look after their crews because they have realised that you represent them when you are on site and they need you as much as you need them. Yes I know that there is a lot of competition for the work, but if your good at what you do then work won't be a problem. One of my clients has recently instigated that NO crew member, whether full time or freelance, will work more than 12 hours in any one day and they have adjusted their pricing to clients to allow for this.....waiting or everyone else to follow suit.

[MikeR]

Gareth re driving other peoples vehicles there are several reasons why I don't, I have in the past driven other peoples vehicles. All that stopped for good when a company's vehicle was clocked by a speed camera doing 120 mph. The operations manager for that company knew who the driver was (not me) but had no records of who was driving what vehicle but decided that by blaming me which involved giving my name address etc to the police without my prior knowledge or consent pressure could be brought to bear on me to give up the name of the driver to blame. I was able to prove that I was actually over a hundred miles away fom the vehicle in question when it was photographed and that was the end of that as far as I was concerned though there were legal repercussions for the company and the ops manager personally. Additionally and equally importantly I have done roadshows where the turnaround and travel time between venues is literally enough to do just that ie pull out drive and re rig. Personally I'm not going to jeopardise my safety, that of the passengers or the show itself (crash damaged kit) by doing a show, derrigging and then driving to another show to do it all again. It may be alright getting to the second show but factor in 7 or 8 shows over a 7 day period for example and it gets quite stressful not to say dangerous. I have lost work as a result of the decision but I take the view that a company that doesnt hire a specialist transport provider or at least a dedicated driver will probably miss the mark in other areas as well. You could say that each job merits a re evaluation of whether I will drive on it or not but I've found that things are never / rarely as they are presented upfront and that expectation always goes beyond what I am personally prepared to provide. It's simpler to say no from the outset and so avoid argument later. One final thing - most of my work, if not all, in the last year to 18 months has been abroad & I'm simply not prepared to drive those sort of distances and then attempt to do my "dayjob " on top of it, I would suggest that requiring your data projectionist or project manager to drive 500 miles and then be on their game for a show is wishful thinking. Having said all that it works for some people though I would like to see people stick to their specialities more. Mutliskilling is a good thing but realistically the benefit is in the onsite skills back up rather than the minimizing of production costs. While Im on that subject I have also lost pitches on cost grounds where a contributing factor in costs is that I don't expect my lampie to drive his lights to site and then rig them. I hired a specialist lampie to do the lighting, I'll hire a driver to transport the kit & in some instances (a roadshow for eg) transport the crew on a crew bus. Apologies once again what started out as a quick explanation has turned into another essay - ooops sorry. B-)

 

Edit: I'm all too aware that my code of practice idea can only ever be wishful thinking. Shame though. :)

[gareth]

Mike, I had a suspicion that what you've just written is pretty much what you were going to say! I was just curious as to why you elected to go for a complete refusal to drive company vehicles, rather than considering each case on its merits (e.g. stipulate that you'll only drive if you can be guaranteed a certain number of hours' rest before having to start rigging, etc.). Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking you for electing to work the way you do (quite the opposite, in fact, I think you are very much on the right track) - I was just wondering whether, in retrospect, you think your decision was the right one to take, rather than considering any driving duties on a job-by-job basis.

[MikeR]

In retrospect I'm still happy with the decision. I haven't driven comapny vehicles for somewhere around 6 years and while I have lost work because of it none of that work was from regular clients and loss hasnt really been an issue as the diary has always been reasonably full without it.

Back on the technicians charter idea I'm wondering about drawing one up and submitting it for comments. ALthough its a pipe dream it will only ever become reality if some one takes the first step.