djtom29 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Hi again I still think you are a bit confused! a mixer is what sound people use to mix the sound! a lighting desk is what lighting crew use to control the lighting by a dim box I think you mean dimmer pack? ok, so you want to add some LED fixtures to your rig, I would advise against LED but thats a completly diffrent story. The dimmer packs you have for your rig and the LED fixtures both need to be connected to the usb-DMX dongle. So you take some 3/5 pin DMX cable (depending on what the in/out on the dimmer,LED parcans and the dongle is) and daisy chain them to the dongle. The next bit can get a bit complicated but il do my best, ALL the "fixtures" on the rig need to be Addressed. This means that you need to tell each light (or dimmer pack) in the chain what channle it starts on. This can be done by either dip swiches which are 9 small switches on the dimmer/parcans or can be done on most new kit now by you using a screen and buttons on the lights/dimmer. When I first tryed to address something using dip swiches I found out that they dont work how you would think! They r given a value and the total of all the values is added up to give the light the address. There are 512 diffrent values/addresses you can use but this is limmeted to how many DMX channles you can controll. The dip swiches work as follows: 1 = 12 = 23 = 44 = 85 = 166 = 327 = 648 = 1289 = 256 I think! im sure if im rong someone will correct me. so if you put one of your parcans o DMX channle 10 you would have swich 4 and swich 2 in the on posision. I will draw something to describe the daisy chain of the DMX cable later unless someone beets me to it! HthTom EDIT to get the DMX values thing right! blue room just dosent like having lots of spaces inbetween numbers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoochy1 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 oops, sorry about that. Lighting board. ok, so say I went with the Magic USB to DMX dongle pack, this comes out of my CPU to the unit.. Next I run a cable from the USB/DMX box to a Dimmer Pack.. Next from the Dimmer Pack my Led's are connected to the Dimmer pack.. WOuld that be the correct set-up. If so what Dimmer pack would I need to purchase in order to get enough channels. Also, even though I know some people dont like LED's are the ones I mentioned on terralec or thoman a better purchse. you guys are fast and reliable. I love it I just reread your post and correct me if I am wrong but it seems like LED's have a built in DIMMER PACK. I guess without seeing phsical units I get confused. Let me explain. THE USB/DMX dongles that I see only have 1 input/output. How then do I connect 4 lights into each other. OR, is this where the daisy chaing comes in, each LED is connected to each other then the only one LED connected to the DMX dongle. Maybe a schematic might make more sense to the exact pieces I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve h Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 The LEDs plug straight into normal main power (I put 13 amp plugs on mine) and then are chained together through DMX. This does mean you have to buy enough DMX to go to each light, but you save on not having to buy a dimmer! You then can control each value on the DMX (depending on what sort you buy then each channel will do a different thing) So for example where as you would normally put a fader up and the light you want goes on...you can now control the red, green and blue on each LED, plus colour changing and other functions. One thing I would like to point out is that if you are using the LEDs as your main light to wash the venue/stage or whatever then you may be disappointed. I use my LEDs to wash walls mainly as they do give some nice effects doing this. For your money some of the regular PARs may be much better. If your looking into LEDs then check out the LED thread here (im not sure if someones pointed this out to you before...I cant remember!) Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoochy1 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 DMX is the cabling correct? is it a completely different cable then your typical XLR cabling. where can I buy DMX cable from? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 ive decided to purchase 4 of these LED's In my humble opinion Read steve h's post above... and keep reading it untill you change your mind djtom gave the best suggestion and the link to http://www.terralec.co.uk/stage_lighting_s...-6/25547_p.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djtom29 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Terralec! I get all my schools DMX cabling from there! most Sound and Lighting shops sell it. You can send 3pin DMX down a sound multicore (what we have to do for inteligents) but it is good practis to use DMX cable. yes you are right about the linking of the LED parcans to the usb dongle. And you dont need a dimmer, just a way of geting power to them. Maby some of this bight be good for you? Power and Signal Cable As you will only need to have one run of cable from your DMX Dongle to the lights. Depending on the power they use depends on if you could just simply add a 4 way block on end or would have to run a number of cables to plugs in the room. As for the LED parcans in terralec......... I cant comment as I have not actualy used any LED equptment so cant comment on which is best. However from what ive hered people say about them I still (and hopefully most people here will) think you would be better off going for some good old fasion non LED pars. maby have a look at this topic, it is a simaler situation were he has a generic rig that needs updating but he wants to get all LED equptment.Linky Worth a read. As I said I am in the middle of drawing something to show you what we mean by "daisy Chain" but I think you have got the idea, out of dongle-in on first light, out of first light to in on second light and so on. HTH Tom Edit: glad someone is agreeing with me that he would be better with terralec normal pars. also dont forget with led pars to be prepered to get a slightly off colour from them as the white seems slightly blue ish (or so ive been told) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoochy1 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 terrific. ok. I do like the normal pars, but the room I am in doesnt have the power supply needed to get what I want to output, thats why I am choosing my LED for now. once the money is there and I can get more lights and find a place with a ton of power then I will use both. Ok, also after reading what I want to go with instead is a lighting desk instead of the dongle. that way I dont have to teach anyone any software and anyone can use the desk. so if someone had some advice on a good desk for using 6 led's, but enough to be able to expand to standard pars at some point. you guys blow me away. dgoverflowuk.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djtom29 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Wise choice! going with a desk is (imo) so much better than most usb/DMX dongles. a desk would depend entirely on what you want to use the pars for/with. if you want to have each par on diffrent channle so they can do diffrent things then you would need (I would say) a 30 (but you cant get 30 channle desk so would be a 32) channle desk. that is based on the pars taking 5 channles each (read in another topic that most LED pars take 5 channles). Do you want to be able to program chases in to the desk? what about future proofing it? what lights are you looking to have in future? Will you ever be hiring more lights/dimmers or anything in? Fog/haze machine controll? as you can see there is alot to think about when chosing a desk. a desk could cost anywere between a £400 one that is ok for the job or a £40000 one that has all the fetures you would ever need and more that you wont! Without information like how many DMX channles each par is and how much you have to spend then we cant realy help other than sudjusting desks that mightbe ok. HTHTom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 but the room I am in doesnt have the power supply needed to get what I want to output, Using all 8 lamps at full output = 4 * 300W = 1200W per bar 2 bars giving a total load of 2400W (approx 10 1/2 Amps) If the room doesn't have at least one 13A socket outlet, then it would be better to move to a room that has a socket or maybe get an extension lead :P I fully understand you wanting to go down the led route .... but !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve h Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I cant see why you do not think you dont have enough power. Using a bit of ohms law a single 13amp socket can run 2990 watts of lights. Ok, so you may not want to go right up to the limit, but using 300w P64s/56s you should be able to get a fair few going, judging from the photos on your website the rooms you use are not the most expansive and so larger lamps may not be needed. As for a desk, with the LEDs there are many ways to run them. If you want them all to always be the same colour then you only need something very small, say a 6 channel desk. If you want them all to be different colours then you are looking at a 24 channel desk, which, of course is more expensive. Another thing I would like to point out is expansion. You seem to be quite interested in lights and are obviously keen to have something that looks very good. However if you go...this is what im running, what do I need to control it, then when you come to want to add more light then you will have to spend more time to expand it. Something that is very good with some of the T bar dimmer combinations that have been pointed out is that to expand all you need to do is get another one, and with the thomann ones when the time comes then you can get a desk and connect them all together. In a very non rude way you have come and asked for advice and yet no one has recommened using LEDs in your situation. There could be a reason for this! Another reason other than already stated is the setting up time for LEDs is longer then erecting a T bar and plugging all the lights in and turning it on. Steve Edit: beaten to it about ohms law! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Genesis 1:16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. Bit like using the most suitable lamp :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoochy1 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 I got yah. you may be right. I guess I was only assuming that the 500-1000 watts were what I needed but hearing what you are saying about room size etc. looks like the 300 w would be plenty. would it be safe to say that in my case, I could get 4 par 56 at 300w and then 3 LED to light the area behind my stage? that way I can get a nice color without having to connect my LED's to a board??? if I go with a PAr56 at 300w, would you recommend getting it from terralec or thomann. I really hear you guys and never want to hesitate from learning more. but I do like the effect of having color in the room as well, I guess thats why LED's are also a good option for me. but the guys who pm me about info who have shared about LED's have also suggesed getting fresnels for the white look. are there desks out there that can run LED and Standard Par. http://www.terralec.co.uk/par_cans/high_qu...ck/15856_p.html is a par at 56, they have a huge bulb that they sell for the par56 http://www.thomann.de/gb/ultralite_upa56eb.htm these have a smaller bulb this is where I am confused. also, my goal for LED's came from the LED board looking at niclights pictures on page 5. I loved that look. keep it coming. I need lights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 this is where I am confused The confusion only comes from your insistence in believing that led lamps are the answer to life the universe and everything Your budget and the required usage however dictates sticking with conventional equipment The 1st item on the shopping list for the very last time ... http://www.terralec.co.uk/stage_lighting_s...-6/25547_p.html Unless of course the main use is to create a disco / night club look in your bedroom. There is a world of difference between what you need and what you think you want (we all want to over spend by 1000%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoochy1 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 The confusion only comes from your insistence in believing that led lamps are the answer to life the universe and everything you are correct. thats why I need to make sure. I like this kit, the only thing I wont need is the stands because I have one. everything else seems good. but why are there 3 types of bulbs that come with the kit. thanks dg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 3 types of bulbs Its all to do with the angle of the light from the par can Spot = narrowMedium flood = errr mediumFlood = wide IMHO I would recommend starting off with all 8 lamps being 'wide' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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