Effect of high low frequency sound levels on old plaster

[Naarjtie]

My first post on these forums so hello!

 

I've got a question regarding an upcoming show I'm producing. We're basically taking over an old theatre (disused since 1980 but the building's still in good condition) for a series of dance gigs (think something along the lines of the Warehouse Project if you're familiar with that Manchester event). Am I being paranoid in thinking that there may be an issue with loud noise / bass levels affecting the building, or at least the decorative plaster?

 

Thanks!

[MarkPAman]

As somebody who was once almost hit by a large piece of falling plaster in an old theatre, I would say no :)

[ojc123]

Stuff of legend here. Find the bit about the Caird Hall in Dundee.

[slipstream]

Removing plaster is easiest when you have 2000 punters bouncing up n down shaking the structure, with noise alone? Doubt it

[Naarjtie]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm having second thoughts now, perhaps a scout around for an alternative venue is in order.

 

Perhaps it won't matter, but I've uploaded a picture of the plaster work I'm concerned about which appears on the stalls on either side of the stage:

 

<a href="http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plastersmallyq1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8127/plastersmallyq1.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a>

[GridGirl]

You're not being paranoid at all! We had an episode here in New Zealand a couple of years ago where a band called the Mint Chicks were so loud that bits of plaster started falling out of the roof of the St James Theatre in Auckland - and I've worked in that venue a few times, on a few pretty damn loud gigs, and never seen it happen before...clicky for the article!

[matt_beal]

I wouldn't write it off straight away, no harm in getting someone in to have a look at how sound the plaster is first.

[dbuckley]

It's an old memory, but I think it was The Prodigy who had the goal of doing damage to each venue they visited on a UK tour some years ago. They started with plaster dropping on the first show. Again, memory is weak, but I think they were using an EAW rig...

 

I saw Deep Purple at (I think) the Royal Court Liverpool when they were in the "we're a very loud band" phase, and yes, they were effing effing loud, and I didn't enjoy it very much. The venue didn't fall down around us, best I can remember...

[digisound]

Yeah it is an EAW rig they used.

 

As for damage I wouldnt worry too much to be honest more damage is caused by bands and crowds then by speakers.

[charlyfarly]

The OP says that the building has not been used since 1980.........nearly 28 years! :) It might look structurally sound but has there been anything like dry or wet rot set in? Or woodworm? Over the years the plaster may have got damp and consequntly dried making it potentially unstable.

I've done a few shows in old venues where netting has been professionally installed to stop the odd bit of plaster falling on heads but you still get a liberal dusting! The worst one was a gig I did (well nearly) in a circus in a town in Siberia. This was a permanent building as opposed to a tent (circuses are big in Russia). During soundcheck a huge lump of concrete fell out of the roof and narrowly missed the drummer....needless to say we cancelled the concert for safety reasons!

In todays "sue happy" culture I would get a structural engineer to look at it. Better to be safe than sorry :)

[Furryface]

Just to agree with all the above posts that a combination of loud bass & sub bass and hot sweaty bouning punters can cause damage to plasterwork and glass (and indeed structural features sometime)

 

Example One - Turbosound rig in Medium sized Southern England Theatre with a MOR older act. During soundcheck we ramped up the volume to check it out and had a 2ft square lump of plaster fall just in front of the mixing console. As it fell from a good 35ft it might not have killed but it certainly would have shook someone up if it had hit them. The names have been deleted to protect the innocent and as the theatre didn't notice at the time!

 

Example Two - The first Ministry of Sound Tour back in the early 90s (or was it the late 80s?) with a JBL Soundpower rig played an early date at the then Hatfield Poly, which was like a big old 1960s School assembly hall with large glass windows down one side. These flexed so much with the LF that they started to crack slowly

 

Example three - Newcastle Academy, not long after it opened a few years ago it had to be closed and a few gigs cancelled as the floor started to collapse near the stage due to the vibrations and jumping of the moshpit. Had to have some serious underpinning work done to shore it up.

 

As you suggest, if you aren't confident about the structure find somewhere else

 

FF

[mac.calder]

As for damage I wouldnt worry too much to be honest more damage is caused by bands and crowds then by speakers.

 

Or TV Crews.

 

TBH: 28 odd years out of commission, I would ask for a structural engineer to check the venue over first - not just for sound issues, but I am sure you will have people in there rigging LX etc?

[charlyfarly]

Do you know why the building has been "abandoned"? It's possible that the theatre had to close because of structural issues when it was a working theatre and they simply didn't have the money for repair.

Maybe the reason it's still there is because it's a historical / Grade listed building?

Just a thought.

[live]

A cautionary tale:

A couple of years ago I installed my slingshot rig (2x4x4) in a listed building for a well known club brand, as the night progressed and more people turned up to the event and the system started to get used a bit more in anger a large chunk of the ceiling broke away (luckily it was behind the dj box). As it was a listed building the Heritage assc became involved and ultimately my company had to foot the bill for the repair (thank god for insurance) this building was in really good condition but old plaster and high spl (especially 80hz and below) dont really mix that well it's the same for most old buildings,how many ppl on this forum have installed a system and had to clean the rig every week because of falling dust,it usually settles down after a couple of weeks but it comes with the job I suppose!

p.s It did'nt help that one of the crew elected to gaffa two signal leads up a post and when it was removed half the plaster on the post came with it!

[cedd]

If the venue is indeed disused and abandoned you might like to talk to the owners about getting some netting attached to the walls. Somebody has already mentioned a netting cage around the audience. What about some adhesive and attaching the netting to the walls?

You've also remembered that the electrics in the building will be of a similair age and maybe in poor condition? Generators and temporary cabling may be the order of the day.

 

We did a medium sized gig at the local community theatre. Still don't know how we got it past the comittee who used to scowl if a performance included a band with guitars at all! Nevertheless, when I cranked the system in soundcheck the sash windows were rattling and I was really quite concerned about them breaking. Solved with liberal coatings of PVC tape (not gaffa - never use it to attach anything to an old venue!) and some cushions from the sofa's in the green room pushed up against the windows from the inside. I'm not a believer in gigs being painfully loud, and this one was not a loud gig in particular, just loud enough to make it feel like more than a band in the corner of a pub.