Stage box/Multi core

[simonbirdsey]

Hi,

 

Firstly, I've been looking at buying a control booth for a while, perhaps a collapsible one. Can anyone recommend a supplier? I've come up with nothing by googling it.

 

While I'm at it, I'm looking for a secure stage cupboard to house Acclaim PCs with stands and the mixing desks.

 

The second part of the question is that I'm going to be taking composite cables from mounted handycams in the school hall all the way back to the vision mixer. I'm thinking of tacking the cables all the way along the wall and having them hardwired in for whenever I need them. I'm planning on doing the same for the speakers at the front of the hall all the way back to the audio desk at the back. Are there any technical considerations or preferred ways of doing this?

 

Any help or advice gratefully recieved. Please ask for any further information.

 

Cheers,

 

Si

[paulears]

I suspect it's because we don't tend to buy them - we usually build them - or am I thinking about the wrong thing - as usual, more info please?

[SoLiEn]

hey, im not too up on video lingo, so im sorry if I get this wrong, I am going to assume that composite is the three phono, audio L audio R and Video. if so, then my colleague who is our media tech for doing long runs like you describe wired up some converters, three phono (composite?) to XLR, I think it helps with the prevention of degradation of the signal, which is obviously good.

 

and what is wrong with making your own cupboards? cheaper, and more satisfying, and you can build to your specification. it really isnt that hard, honest!

[bruce]

hey, im not too up on video lingo, so im sorry if I get this wrong, I am going to assume that composite is the three phono, audio L audio R and Video.

Nope, composite is the single coax video connection.

[simonbirdsey]

Youre being a bit hard their Bruce. Composite normally comes with the yellow connector for video and red and white for audio. Component cables are red, blue and green and offer far superior picture quality.

 

I'm using Sony DCR-HC42E handycams, which come with an AV-component cable output, so I'm currentlt planning on going down the component route. At the other end of the cable I'm going into an Edirol V4 mixer with composite inputs.

 

As for the control booth, I'm looking for a sectioned off area from which to operate the various mixing desks. I'm picturing a three-sided construction. Surely not everyone builds their own control booths?

[bruce]

Youre being a bit hard their Bruce.

Hard? I thought I was being accurate, rather than speculating :P

 

Composite normally comes with the yellow connector for video and red and white for audio.

 

That may be the case on domestic equipment, but is certainly not the case in the general sense. Composite video refers to the electrical characteristics of the signal. The "yellow phono plug" is a relatively recent consumer development.

 

(and by definition, "composite video" does not have an audio component! ;) )

 

I was working on a video system today which uses dozens of composite video connections. None were on phono plugs of any sort, never mind yellow ones!

[smalljoshua]

I'm looking for a sectioned off area from which to operate the various mixing desks

My Bold I am assuming this includes Sound Desks.

As has been said in other topics you don't want to isolate the sound desk from the audience.

 

It can't be that hard to build your own, can it?

 

Josh

[Pete McCrea]

I'm using Sony DCR-HC42E handycams, which come with an AV-component cable output, so I'm currentlt planning on going down the component route. At the other end of the cable I'm going into an Edirol V4 mixer with composite inputs.

 

If the Camera does out out a Component Signal, then V4 would be unlikely to accept them on the Composite input, as I would believe you need to do the format conversion.

 

If by AV-component you mean Audio L+R and Composite Video (typically on Phono´s) then that isn´t Component in video speak.

 

As for running it in, get some decent 75Ohm coaxial cable and terminate to sensible wall plates and that should do the job.

[simonbirdsey]

Sorry, I meant that the cameras are AV-composite out and the mixer accepts composite in.

[bruce]

You wouldn't be the first person to mix up component and composite. The words are far too similar!

 

What sort of cable lengths are you looking at? (for both the video and speaker cables)

 

What sort of speaker cables are they?

[boatman]

.

.

Component cables are red, blue and green and offer far superior picture quality.

.

.

 

No they're not. Component signals are Y, Pb & Pr also known as 4:2:2 or CCIR601. It is RGB signals which are Red, Green & Blue.

[simonbirdsey]

I meant the colour coding on the connectors rather than the signal.

 

There are about 4 points in the hall where I would like to run the composite cables to. I guess that the distance could be up to about 30m.

[Bobbsy]

Okay, first let's define some terms here.

 

Composite video is a signal where the the luminance and chrominance (brightness and colour) information for the television picture is combined into a single signal. This makes it easy to handle from a wiring point of view (as it can travel down a single cable) but the two signals can interfere slightly with each other and quality suffers. On amateur equipment, the composite video lead is usually colour coded Yellow.

 

Component video keeps the luminance and colour information separate. True component video uses three cables: one carrying the Luminance and two others carrying "colour difference" signals. You will often see component connections labelled either YUV or YCrCb. On amateur equipment the connectors are often colour coded Red, Blue and Green but this is misleading (more on that later).

 

Just to confuse things, there are two other main ways of handling a video signal. (Please note, I'm ignoring computer video and things like VGA for the purpose of this post since they're not generally used for live cameras).

 

First, there is a system called S-Video which is sometimes (wrongly) referred to as "Y-C Component". This is a halfway house between Composite and true Component video. In this the Luminance and Colour signals are separated but the colour information is mixed together into a single signal. As a halfway house, the quality is better than composite but not as good as true component. Generally on amateur gear, S-Video uses a specific connector which looks a bit like a mini DIN.

 

Finally, there is some gear around that can handle the video image in it's original, raw state. Within the camera, the picture starts originally as three separate colour signals, one for the Red information, on for Green and one for Blue. For obvious reasons, this is known as RGB and is why I said using red, green and blue colour coding for component is slightly misleading. RGB provides excellent quality but can be expensive to handle and not found very often on amateur gear (other than some links from satellite decoders to TV sets for example).

 

I go into all this detail because I have the impression that some posters may have thought that the name "composite" referred to the cheap and nasty cables that give you composite video and two audio on a single phono-plugged lead.

 

Anyway, onto your original question: If you're doing long cable runs, don't even think of using the cheapie phono stuff you find in shops. Instead, buy decent quality 75 ohm coax (something like BBC PSF1/3) for the video and good screened cable for the audio. I'm going to be a bit vague with the audio because, frankly, you shouldn't be planning on taking the feeds from the on-camera mics back to your control room. Instead, you should be placing mics near the action, either as part of the overall sound design for the event, or maybe mics specific to the recording.

 

Finally, on the "control booth" I'll support the recommendation that you simply build something for your self (or even just rack up your gear on a wheeled trolley and put it in an adjacent room). There actually ARE pre-fab walls and booths for the quick contruction of radio and TV facilities but, frankly, the prices on these are so terrifyingly high that I hesitate to mention them.

 

Bob

[Gerry]

Hi Simon

As a matter of interest, as an ex Northwich resident, where in Northwich is your hall, theartre, venue?

If it is one I am familar with might be able to give some advice.

Are you talking about a control booth for lighting, sound, vision mixing or what?

Cheers

Gerry

[simonbirdsey]

Hi Gerry,We have talked before. I work for the County High School Leftwich. One of my plans is to hardwire in cables, so that we can have a vision mixer at the back of the hall to record concerts etc straight to DVD from 4 camera angles. If I've understood correctly, it seems like the best way to do it is to have wall plates next to the camera mounts that accept an RCA connection and to feed 75 Ohm coax cable back to the mixing position.I'm also looking at taking the sound desk to the back of the hall. I assume for that that I'm going to need a breakout box around the stage and a multicore back to the mixing position. These are all new things to me, so I'm learning as I go along.I was simply looking for some sort of control booth/dedicated desk where we could have the mixing desks (perhaps vision and sound in one booth and lighting in another), rather than having them on a table. If it was collapsible that would be even better.All the best,SiHi guys,Just to make sure I'm clear with things: if I had phono/RCA (composite) wall plates next to the camera positions and the mixer, such as these:http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B...p;condition=alland I ran 75ohm coax cable from the wall plates next to the camera mounts to the wall plates next to the mixer, then that should work? Would I be able to get one plate with 5 seperate phono outs from anywhere? If I bought coax cable for 69p per meter for example and the average distance was 20m, then each run would only cost about £20. Then I could use the AV-composite out from the camera to the wall plate and use a composite into the mixer. Sounds fairly simple.Two questions: what sort of coax would be the best to use? The price I was using comes from the RG59B/U on the Maplin site.Secondly, could anyone give me a ball park figure of how much a contractor would charge to wire these in if I was having 5 of them with an average distance of 20m? Even if I wanted to do it myself and had a clue how to, the Council wouldn't let me do it because it's a school.Cheers.