Out of the dark

[gazzer1uk]

Hi guys,

 

I have just joined the forum to begin to learn what I can to assist lighting up the 5 piece Rock band I play in.

 

Historically we had a few par cans on a T and we were slightly greenish hued all night! However, we have improved and have a bit of a following and the bass player and I beleive that this was not good enough.

 

So we spent some money, probably naiveley but we were in a hurry and foolishly had the credit card to hand.

 

We now have a "Showtec Lite 8" 13 channel DMX desk, 2 x Showtec Multi Dim MkII 4 channel DMX Mixers, 8 Par Can 56's on a T and 3 Long nose Parc Can 64's on a 3rd T.

 

I am sure we may have bought more wisely, but it appears a reasonable set up with some potential.

 

We used the Par 64's as white lights to Spot 3 areas on stage, it wasn't wonderful, but we got away with it. I also had some trouble setting up the dimmers to behave seperately and have the coloured Par 56's on one dimmer and the 64's sepearate, but they all seemd to flash from the pre programmed stuff.

 

As we move forward we will have to live with what we have for a while, however, I realise the pars 64's are not suitable spotlights and think we will put some gels and use that to colour wash the stage (same colours as the gles in the 54's).

 

I have been looking at spotlights (for the future!!) but really have not got a clue, fresnel, profile discharge, it all looks like fun but clearly you need some knowledge!

 

So I thought I would ask the venerable community here, how they might suggest using what we have more imaginatively than we have and if someone would be kind enough to explain the technical differences and best practice with spotlights.

 

Were traditionally laid out, 1 guitar to the left, singer in front of the drummer in the middle and bass and other guitar to the right, you can check us out at www.aawb.co.uk, I am the short fat one!!!

 

Look forward to learning from you,

 

Gaz

[Harvey_51]

Hello,

 

You could buy something like this

 

 

"Main Features are: Compact lighting heads either mountable on stands or with built in floor-mount V bracket, XLR standard connections using digital DMX signal, straight forward plug & play operation with 32 preset colors and various chase patterns creating vibrant colours using unique coloured dichroic lenses, backed up with a easy to use Colourmix Controller which has full dimming capability & Foot Controller (Ideal for Band use)"

 

 

Hope This Helps !

 

Jordan

[Zak]

You could buy something like this,

I've had the misfortune of encountering some color-changing washes like those before. Avoid them like the plague!

 

The foot controller looks like a good idea though

[bruce]

Hello,

 

You could buy something like this,

(snip)

Hope This Helps <_< !

 

The original post says he's looking for ideas on

using what we have more imaginatively

not buying more kit.

 

Answering a question is easy - the challenge is answering the one that has been asked :)

[TomLyall]

Hi Gaz, and welcome to the Blue Room.

 

We now have a "Showtec Lite 8" 13 channel DMX desk, 2 x Showtec Multi Dim MkII 4 channel DMX Mixers, 8 Par Can 56's on a T and 3 Long nose Parc Can 64's on a 3rd T.

I am sure we may have bought more wisely, but it appears a reasonable set up with some potential.

That's a pretty good selection of kit for a band. 4 of the 56s a side sounds good, with a selection of colours.

 

We used the Par 64's as white lights to Spot 3 areas on stage, it wasn't wonderful, but we got away with it.

It's not a bad way to get some light onto the stage, they could end up over-powering the 56s though. It might be worth using some of the 56s for white wash and 64s for darker colours, especially blues. Profiles are probably over-speced for this application. They'd be a lot more expensive, and wouldn't gig very well, far too fragile.

 

A couple of short-nose par 56 could look good to uplight the drum kit, but that can be a bit awkward if you don't always have much space on stage.

 

I also had some trouble setting up the dimmers to behave seperately and have the coloured Par 56's on one dimmer and the 64's sepearate, but they all seemd to flash from the pre programmed stuff.

If I remember rightly, there should be a "mode" button, which will change the first letter shown the display from P to A, you should then be able to select the address using the up and down buttons.

 

You could buy something like this,

"Main Features are: Compact lighting heads either mountable on stands or with built in floor-mount V bracket, XLR standard connections using digital DMX signal, straight forward plug & play operation with 32 preset colors and various chase patterns creating vibrant colours using unique coloured dichroic lenses, backed up with a easy to use Colourmix Controller which has full dimming capability & Foot Controller (Ideal for Band use)"

Hope This Helps <_< !

Jordan

It really doesn't help. They already have a pretty good selection of kit, which sounds to be functional. For now, the most sensible suggestion is to use what they've got to the best.

 

Edit: Beaten to it on that last bit, by 25 minutes (I'm slow!)

[Brian]

...5 piece Rock band...but it appears a reasonable set up with some potential...I realise the pars 64's are not suitable spotlights...using what we have more imaginatively than we have...technical differences and best practice with spotlights.

For many many years PAR64s have done sterling service as spotlights for rock and roll lighting. They are light, cheap and take abuse well. Stick with them.

 

Have a search on here for '4 colour wash' (or maybe 'four colour wash') for a starting point. Have a look at the FAQ pinned to the top of this section for...

Rock Concert Lighting

Music Lighting, Inside Drums

Help with a 4 colour Wash, Which 4 colours?

Light show

Live band lighting, sorry I know it aint theatre

Your favourite colour combinations, live band on a small stage

[gazzer1uk]

Thanks guys.

 

Appreciate people taking time to respond. I shall trawl through those topics, but pleasingly seems not bad choices made so far!!

 

I still would be very interested if someone can highlight the spotlight technical differences, I see 15 deg 120 deg , profile, fresnel etc.

 

I am assuming there are several types of lens to provide a focused beam of light, and that there are different technologies for doing so, and that the varying degrees are the width of the beam etc. Be very interested if someone can explain what they mean and how you can apply them,

 

Thanks again, I am looking forward to using this forum to help us get the best out of what we have and for moving it forward in due course,

 

Gaz

[Brian]

Hi Gaz,

 

if you have a look at our Wiki (red link, top right) there are articles explaining the various differences.

[Jivemaster]

Just watch the power you intend to consume! Its no good having a show that needs 20K and finding just 3K on stage.

[gnomatron]

I wouldn't worry too much about getting any profile spots and such, they can be very useful lights for the right job but honestly parcans are generally more useful for band lighting. They're nice and punchy and great for projecting colour.

 

What effect do you want to achieve? It sounds like you want a simple white spot for the band members, which is probably best achieved with a profile, but could be done ok with a parcan. You could try using the 64s for colour, and some of the 56s for the white spots; the gel takes a fair bit of punch out of the light (depending on the colour & saturation), so the white spots won't be as overpowering against the coloured lights.

 

If you do end up with profiles, remember that the lens angle you'll need is totally dependant on the size of the area you want to light, and the distance between the lantern and that area.

[chrispuxley]

What effect do you want to achieve? It sounds like you want a simple white spot for the band members, which is probably best achieved with a profile, but could be done ok with a parcan.

Also remember that there are many choices of lamp with different 'beam angles' for the PAR64. Search the forum for lamp / pattern / angle information - they are relatively cheap to buy and having a selection will set you up for a variety of different applications.

 

Chris

[gazzer1uk]

Thanks guys, again,

 

As to which effect, I reall like the beam of light that you get switched in an out, looks like a narrow beam of light and is "rock concert" lighting stereotype!! It is usually done in at least pairs, and is like a torchlight beam, nice and bright.

 

I am assuming some kind of haze is needed in the first instance??

 

Can I ask about smoke machine/hazing at this juncture? A local venue wont entertain smoke machines as they are a hotel and apparently set off the smoke alarms. If this is so, there must be a myriad of other venues with the same issue, can you get round it?

 

If that's off topic, sorry I'll look for an answer elsewhere on this forum,

 

The wiki was very valuable, I can talk more parabolics than usual now!!

 

Cheers,

 

Gaz

 

PS thanks to remind me about power consumption, so far, the dimmers only need 13 amp, the bulbs are only 500 watt each, which I am advised is OK, if not do tell me quickly!!!!

[JimWebber]

Hi Gaz,

 

Unfortunately you will run into the haze problem in a lot of venues, especially in hotels, church halls, community halls etc. Many theatres, and venues where smoke and/or haze is expected, the fire alarms can be isolated. (There was a very useful thread a few months back, definitely worth searching out!) It's a shame really, because haze adds so much to "disco-ey" effects.

 

With regard to your original question, about providing "Spots" for the band, I personally wouldn't use parcans... (However I am theatre based, so look at things slightly differently)

 

I would be looking at two possibilities here:

 

1. A 500/650W zoom profile - Flexible, ie hard or soft focus and the ability to project gobos they also have less spill. However, they are bigger/heavier and more expensive then:

2. A 500/65W fresnel - Gives a nice soft beam, with generally a slightly larger spread of beam angles - ie size of spot. coupled against this, is the amount of spill from the beam, and the fact that you can never get a hard-edged "spot"

 

Just my thoughts, as I say, I tend to think about things in a theatre application, which is not necessarily the same as band/concert lighting.

 

Jim