DMX cables 5pin or 3pin

[pritch]

everything seems to be shifting to low cost network type connectors and cable and I will be surprised if DMX doesnt go the same way?

 

I presume by 'low cost network type connectors', you're referring to RJ45? Might be OK for a fixed install perhaps, but I really wouldn't like to see how they perform in any environment where things are connected / disconnected / moved etc all the time. I've lost count of the number of RJ45 connectors I've seen without the latch on them because it's been broken off; XLR is just far more suited to heavy use than plastic RJ45.

 

Of course, you've got Ethercon - but then that's hardly a low cost connector, so you may as well stick with 5 pin XLR in that case!

[Ynot]

manufacturers will still be always using the most convenient or cheapest options or mixing and matching forever and its our job to try make sense of it all.

Only the cowboys do that. Seriously.

Seeing a 3-pin XLR used for DMX input is a sure-fire way of spotting budget equipment.

There is a reason for standards.

If kit fully complies with the standard, then you can be confident it'll work.

Hmmmmm....

Actually, whilst I'll agree that the vast majority of the cowboys do in fact use 3-pin, it's not JUST the budget end of the market.

Martin have only in the last few years started to put 5-pins on (as WELL as 3's) their smaller range of moving head Macs. And I would in no way call Martin a cowboy outfit!

And Robe, another company who seem to be hot on the heels of Martin, and favoured by quite a few Blue Roomers...

According to their web site, many of the club head range are JUST 3-pins, whilst the theatre range has, like the Macs, both 5 and 3 pin ins/outs....

As I recall, the earlier Robe Color ranges, like Macs, were just 3-pin....

 

I'd say that as in many cases of this ilk, WE as a general group of users, are quite possibly as guilty of propagating the 3-pin situation. If the ONLY fixtures that pro's and the experienced amateur or part-timers ever bought HAD to be 5-pin, then the bigger manufacturers wouldn't have been driven down the line of fitting 3's in the first place.

But in a very consumer-driven market place, the suppliers will inevitably cut any costs they can to ensure that THEIR products reach the users they want to supply. That's likely why the Martins and Robes of this world started with 3-pins.

The fact that these days on many fixtures they're supplying both is an indication that they now recognise the drive towards 5-pin, but also that 3-pin is still VERY prevalent!

(And of course the cost of sockets/plugs has likely dropped in the last 10 years...!)

[Jamtastic3]

MARTIN have 3 pin fixtures

HIGH END SYSTEMS have 3 pin fixtures

ROBE have 3 pin fixtures

 

I'd hardly call these big industry companies 'cow boys'

 

The only company that I know of that's kept to the rule has to be CLAY PAKY. Geeze they even put anologue connections on their equipment along with 5 pin DMX.

[gareth]

MARTIN have 3 pin fixtures

Their new fixtures have both 3- and 5-pin connections. They finally saw the error of their ways and added 5-pin connections to their kit - but they had to keep the 3-pin option because a really really silly decision by someone (probably Martin themselves!) to start selling equipment with non-standard 3-pin conenctors many years ago has created such a huge legacy of non-compliant equipment out in the world of lighting that they would've had a huge backlash from customers (current and potential) if they'd simply ditched compatibility with all the old non-compliant equipment. In other words, they made their non-standard-compliant bed, and now they're having to lie in it. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot ...

[niall]

HIGH END SYSTEMS have 3 pin fixtures

 

 

well, their older stuff does, the newer things like DL1/2s are 5pin

[martinw]

MARTIN have 3 pin fixtures

HIGH END SYSTEMS have 3 pin fixtures

ROBE have 3 pin fixtures

Yeah, and they're all wrong.... ;-)

[dbuckley]

MARTIN have 3 pin fixtures

HIGH END SYSTEMS have 3 pin fixtures

ROBE have 3 pin fixtures

 

The only company that I know of that's kept to the rule has to be CLAY PAKY. Geeze they even put anologue connections on their equipment along with 5 pin DMX.

 

They are all companies (including Clay Paky, but for a different reason) that have chosen to ignore the published standard in some respect or another, and as such they are cowboys.

 

Martin started it. For those with short memories, Martin gear pre-DMX512 had a three pin connector to transport RS485 data. So, what did Martin do? Update their software to accept DMX512 data, and left the hardware as it was. Slackness. Cowboys. The other just jumped on the bandwagon, presumably to be (of all things) Martin compliant. Slackers.

 

[fx: stumbles down from soapbox]

[mac.calder]

Strangely enough, this debate is one I had with management today. We currently have Robe 170AT's as permanant installs in the roof (used primarily as table spots). 3 pin XLR. So as far as management are concerned - 3 pin is all you need.

 

I was making the argument to install DMX points on our wired bars and theatrical droppers, and management were generally receptive. Good sign. Fill in the purchase order they said - so, 3 hundred meters of decent quality DMX cable, 20 pannel mount 5 pin XLR sockets (4 powered bars + 6 theatrical droppers + patch points), 3 DMX merge units, 6ru wall mount rack, 2 patch blank plates, 26 5 pin XLR plugs for patch cables - going for the whole hog, knowing they would try and cut me down to the minimum. The first and primary sticking point "Why do you need 5 pin XLR? 3 pin is cheaper". ARGH!

 

As far as I am concerned - 3 pin XLRs being used in Lighting is the worst thing that could have happened - for a good reason - I spent 3 hours yesterday sorting through mic leads to find any that were actually meant for the robes in the roof which had been pulled out for maintenance. I could have sworn the cables had been hung over the peg with DMX above it...

[robloxley]

If it's just you using your lanterns, cables and desk then it's up to you. However, consider if you ever want to hire in DMX cable/another desk/dimmers/lanterns - then you'll be glad you went for 5 pin DMX.

CPC do cheap 3-5 pin adaptors - about £2.

[dbuckley]

Just as a solution to this perennial problem - I've got a (Chinese made) four channel isolated distro, and it has both 3 and 5 pin connectors on all inputs and outputs, so that solves most problems. I use mic cables for 3 pin slackards, and proper data cable for the honest, decent, reputable companies who use the proper five pin connector. Of course, there remains the issue that there is no standard for DMX512 data on 3 pin, so I still have a small pile of 3 pin reversers, which are, of course, made up with mic cable...

[Dmills]

Of course, there remains the issue that there is no standard for DMX512 data on 3 pin

And that is the single best reason from a pragmatic point of view to use 5 pin!

 

You can waste hours with an unknown pile of 3 pin kit from different suppliers (even when the entire network is 3 pin), where in the 5 pin case it usually just works.

 

I own some 3 pin kit and each and every piece has a pair of jumpers to 5 pin of the appropriate wiring left permanently in place, it just cuts down the pain.

 

Regards, Dan.

[Jivemaster]

The correct answer is 5 pin XLR.

 

The pragmatic answer is to use what comes!

 

I prefer the isolated splitter and the 3pin, 3pin reversed, and 5 pin being sent down separate wires. but the option to run desk to all the 5 pin fittings then change to 3 pin then change to reversed will work for short runs.

 

I prefer NOT to have adapters for everything as each connector is a loss/reflection risk and an extra four connectors per fitting must impair the system reliability.

[zonino]

Dan, would it not be cheaper to swap the connectors on the unit for 5 pin in that case?

[Bryson]

The splitter idea is a good one. I have a Celco splitter that has 4 5-pin outs, 1 3-pin, and 1 3-pin reversed. Very useful.

[Jivemaster]

Probably as importantly with several wires for the same universe no single device failure kills all the lights.

 

I once had some chinese colour changers which would only work correctly corrected in one order! I'd rather they only brought one line down.