DMX cables 5pin or 3pin

[Jake G]

Thanks, I appreciate all the input.

 

So can I use 5pin on the ones that take it, then convert and use 3pin on the rest?

 

If it helps I have 4 Chauvet Q-Spot 250's and 4 Optima Matrix 575's

 

The Optima's are 5pin/3pin

 

The Chauvet's are 3pin

 

Would 3pin all the way be sufficiant? It would be easier, but if it's worth it to use 5pin where I can then I would do it.

 

Thanks again,

Jake

[Ynot]

So can I use 5pin on the ones that take it, then convert and use 3pin on the rest?

Not knowing the fixtures personally, I would say that it's highly likely that you could run a 5-pin IN to one fixture and OUT as a 3-pin to the next. On most DMX kit I'd say the connections are just wired directly across from input to output, and almost certainly parallelled across both inputs and both outputs. No clever electronics involved. What I wouldn't recommend though is running BOTH outputs from one fixture out to two seperate lights. That would very likely cause you some serious DMX problems!

[Jake G]

But would it in any way be worth it to even mess with the 5pin?

[TomLyall]

Would 3pin all the way be sufficiant? It would be easier, but if it's worth it to use 5pin where I can then I would do it.

For the time being, and with the kit you have, It'd do just fine. I'd take the advise of others and use proper data cable, not mic cable though.

 

Whatever you do, I'd keep all the cable to either 3 or 5, mixing the two (other than adaptors) will do your head in unless they're heavily colour coded.

[Don Allen]

Make sure you mark your 3 pin to 5 pin adaptors clearly as a phase reversal will add troubleshooting delays to your setup time, or could cause problems during a show. Test all of your leads for phasing (pin 1 to pin 1 etc unless it is a martin phase reversal adaptor) and then label with to know their status.

 

I had a call-out to look at a desk that was playing up on Monday, after an hour of looking and testing, which included verification of desk output, the fault came down to the DMX connection between dimmer 1 and the next 7. They were intermittently losing dimmers 2 to 8. I found a ten metre 3 pin to 3 pin audio cable, a 5 metre 3 pin to 5 pin adaptor cable, a 25 centimetre 3 pin to 5 pin adaptor used to connect the first to second dimmer rack, which were about a metre apart. The 3 pin to 3 pin audio cable tested OK for DMX data but failed the analogue cable test. (have not worked out how the cable passed a DMX data test yet). So problem was a phase reversal in an audio cable.

 

Time spent making sure your cables are all good and clearly labelled will save you a lot of set up time.

 

Also extremely useful to carry a DMX tester with you, I use the Showtech tester which is a Dr DMX clone.

[Ynot]

Also extremely useful to carry a DMX tester with you, I use the Showtech tester which is a Dr DMX clone.

Slightly OT here, but what can that tester do? And quanta costa?

I'm on the lookout for a budget DMX tester than can analyse the signals received from a desk and highlight any faults (as we still have an annoying noise fault somewhere on our 2nd universe....)

Got a link for the product?

[pritch]

Also extremely useful to carry a DMX tester with you, I use the Showtech tester which is a Dr DMX clone.

Slightly OT here, but what can that tester do? And quanta costa?

 

I think that this is the tester in question. I've seen it in various places for circa £130.

 

I've found the user manual as well if you fancy a quick squizz at what it can do.

[Tom R]

I'm not entirely sure how clear it is in the 1990 version of the standard, but the 2005 revision makes the case for 5-pin cable stronger, as it goes into more detail on how different start codes can be used in conjunction with new devices that can understand them. At the moment, the most common start code is 0 which in basic terms is your normal DMX universe. What we will probably start to see in the future are functions such as remote device management occuring over the same cable which make use of different start codes which will cause fixtures to perform extra functions

 

Just to clarify, the start code is part of the DMX packet, which is sent using only pins 2 and 3 so doesnt really have any effect on 5 pin cable. I believe this is the reason why RDM is now looking at using 3 pins rather than 5 <_<

[Ynot]

I think that this is the tester in question. I've seen it in various places for circa £130.

Wahaay!

That little beastie does indeed look like a candidate!

10/10 have it up for £135 plus the vodka...

Whilst searching for it on Thomann this one , a Botex, is £104 inclusive...

The two LOOK similar, but not sure at this point

Cheers.

[Beaky]

I think that all the trouble here was because the original spec left room for expansion for other comms down a 5 pin connector and as is obvious it simply hasnt evolved that way, so where is the big problem with using the 3 pin? it fulfils the the requirement electrically and comms wise and in the ideal world there wounldnt be any connectors as any connector is adding only potential problems and resistance to the line anyway. unless someone starts developing on the original spec then 2 wire and ground will be here for a long time and the likly hood that someone does start using a more complexed muxed/DMX version it will probably still go down two wires anyway?

[u_dakka]

Is this even relevant any more? From what I've heard from an American site, the control side is being slowly turned into being run from Cat 5e cables. Any else heard anything about that?

 

For what it's worth our stuff in the union is all on 3pin DMX, but then it's a nightclub more than theatre. (8 original Mac 250s and a couple of dozen moving mirrors).

 

andy

[Ike]

so where is the big problem with using the 3 pin?

In my line of work I have seen 3 pin XLRs used for:

Mic signals

Cans systems

Midi/midi show control

Go/no go "dead mans handles"

Digital pyro systems

Birdie power

Cue lights

Speaker level audio signals

...and possibly quite a few more things I've forgotten about.

 

I've seen 5 pin XLRs used for:

DMX

 

Now which do you think I've seen the most dead fixtures as a result of using?

[Beaky]

everything seems to be shifting to low cost network type connectors and cable and I will be surprised if DMX doesnt go the same way? but as regards the multi use of the same connector type , yep seen all those and more but I cant ever remember blowing anything up as result of cross connection is 26 years of stage work? maybe my cable ident systems work? and weve been using 4 5 and 6 pin XLRs for audio for a very long time and ive never tried to plug a 5 pin audio lead into a DMX lamp or a 3 pin for that matter?

 

You have to remember for as long as all this gears been about we have been having to patch and cross wire gear etc to get it working, we have two standards of audio levels, wiring on desks used to be anything the manufacturer decided on the day. Speakers on jacks and XLRs, mics instruments on the same, dins have been used on anything and everything forever (god I hate them)......the point is that everyone in this industry knows that you cant rely on any particular connector to be guarenteed to be on the right piece of kit but anyone getting their XLR mic inputs mixed up with their 3 DMX really needs to think about how they build the system or should look at the way they work and identify things?

 

If the manufacturers were really concerned about such things shouldnt they be the ones making and using the completly new connectors? then the cost goes up and we start removing them and using proprietry ones to save costs and to standardise, if we go back to my opening on this post are we then now going to see people trying to plug their computer network cables into the DMX lamps should they go to network cables and connectors?

 

No matter whats said or done there will be always options for cocking the job up and you imagine in times to come and your sat in a huge nest of cables in the rigging of a theatre or club with all those thousands of network cables controlling everything form comms, computers,security and DMX lighting , youll say to yourself maybe I did like the trusty old 3 pin XLR afterall.......easy to wire just few to carry (as they fitted everything) and damn cheap.......oh sh*t ive dropped that fiddly network plug again!

 

Im sure we would all love to see clearly defined and well controlled connectors but its not going to ever happen im sure, manufacturers will still be always using the most convenient or cheapest options or mixing and matching forever and its our job to try make sense of it all. And if it doesnt make sense to us we will find a way thay does, hence the debate here.

 

I think my point really is that it makes no difference what connector you use as long as its functional, reliable and easy to get hold of, all the rest is down to who you are as a person and how you run and label your wiring, if you blow something up or yourself for that matter you have to remember ............you plugged it in and didnt test it when in doubt

 

One other thing there are still plenty of desks out there with 5 pin XLRs on the PSUs and the 5 pin has been used for data and control many times before DMX

[Tomo]

Im sure we would all love to see clearly defined and well controlled connectors but its not going to ever happen im sure

This is already here.

ESTA and ANSI make standards in consultation with manufacturers.

manufacturers will still be always using the most convenient or cheapest options or mixing and matching forever and its our job to try make sense of it all.

Only the cowboys do that. Seriously.

Seeing a 3-pin XLR used for DMX input is a sure-fire way of spotting budget equipment.

There is a reason for standards.

If kit fully complies with the standard, then you can be confident it'll work.

If it doesn't, then.....

 

Oh and:

I think my point really is that it makes no difference what connector you use

Untrue.

Yes, you can use 3-pin XLRs for DMX, and as long as you use the right kind of data cable it'll work fine.

If you don't use the right cable, then it'll probably work most of the time, but not always!

 

There are also a lot of signals where it matters a LOT which connector is used - try sending ethernet down a pair of XLR 4s!

[IRW]

Just to clarify, the start code is part of the DMX packet, which is sent using only pins 2 and 3 so doesnt really have any effect on 5 pin cable. I believe this is the reason why RDM is now looking at using 3 pins rather than 5 :)

 

Just checked, the version of the standard I had seen was actually a draft (revision 3) for DMX512-A written in 2000 that I had borrowed of a colleague to check timings... <_< ...I think that's why my view was a little incorrect! (although according to this version, everything I said was correct!)...

 

PLASA bookshop here I come for the latest published version!

 

Apologies

 

Ian