Too many pars?

[Jimi]

First of all hi!

 

I'll try and keep this as brief as possible. I've had a look through the Wiki and also read Francis Reid's book on lighting and although both have given me lots of help, I could just use a little more info.

 

Firstly I'll outline my Dilemma. My theatre group have got a summer show coming up at he end of June and I have agreed to do the lighting for it. It is basically a number of musical numbers strung together with a lose narrative. I have enclosed a rough diagram of the stage below.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/K-Holed/th_StageLayout.jpg

 

It's a small church hall with a capacity of around 100 people. It's a small proscenium stage fed by 60 amps over 3 dimmer packs. That gives us around 14.4kw for lanterns. the lanterns are hung approx. 12-15' above the stage and there are 6 additional lanterns FOH, 3 on each of the side walls around 30' up (all par 64s (500w). There is no provision for hanging any other lanterns FOH in any other position.

 

Am I going to be banging my head against a brick wall tying to get much from these lights, other than different washes of colour? I've heard that you can use different lamps in them to give narrower beams, how effective is this? would it be worth hiring in some extra lanterns? Below is a pic of the lanterns we have (24 of them!)

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/K-Holed/th_IMG_0891.jpg

 

With the AGM coming up, I'm hoping to petition for some different units to replace some of the pars. would a few PC spots or fresnels be worth while? It has been suggested to me that we need all the pars to give sufficient lighting to the stage as a "wash".

 

I hope someone can shed some light (no pun intended!) onto all this.

 

Thank you in advance

 

//Jimi

 

Moderation: Thumbnailed images for the bandwidth impaired

[paulears]

The hanging height is low, and PARS simply are too narrow. They are designed as a 'punchy' light - that's their purposes, they are simply useless for washes unless a long way away, or you have huge numbers.

 

In your space Fresnels are the way to go - much.much wider beams, soft edges so they blend well. Proper stage lighting for the smaller stage. PAR cans are cheap, and to the non-technical, much better value. As you have found out, this is not the case.

 

3 a side front of house is grim - compared to what you have over the stage. The imbalance of frontal to overhead light is weird! If you change things then 650s over the stage and 1.2K front of house will help a bit, but the faces seen by the audience have to be lit by just a small number of lanterns - so if you need a couple of colours, this limits brigntness even more.

 

If you can afford it, buy as many Fresnels as you can, and replace the pop concert PARs.

[David A]

But if you can't do that then a light frost to widen the beam and most importantly barndoors to give you some control of the beam will get you through till you can buy something better.

[Roderick]

Hi Jimi

 

Welcome to the Blue Room!

 

Looking at the plot in your post, to me it looks like a basic orchestra downlight plot. Lots of white light so the musos can read the dots but no good if you want to do something slightly more interesting.

 

I agree with Paulears, the pars are no going to help you and you should try to get rid of them.

My very rough suggestion would be:

3 x 1.2kW Fresnel on the US bar to give you some backlight

4 x 650W Fresnel on each bar but hung at the very end SL & SR, focused across the stage to give you a nice side wash

4 x 1.2kW Fresnel in the FOH position to give you some front light

2 x 1.2kW Profile in the FOH position for a basic gobo wash (just for something different)

and if you still have channels left over:

- see if you can get some cyc units to wash the back wall or backdrop (if it isn't black )

- or use some of the Pars as specials

 

And have you thought about a follow-spot from the back of the hall? It will be pretty flat but could give you some flexibility for the narrator in between the musical numbers.

 

PM me if you would like a simple plot to clarify things.

[goochr96]

May I draw your attention back to this

It's a small proscenium stage fed by 60 amps over 3 dimmer packs

 

Maybe that is the reason why there lanterns are 500w. As 500 * 24 is 12000w divided by the nominal voltage @ 230 is a total load of 52.1A Going on what Roderick has suggested you may end up pulling 58.26A total load. Okay I doubt you would have them all on at once, but it is sailing a little too close to the wind for my liking.

[Jimi]

Thank you all for the prompt responses. I guess it's just a shame I have no way of seeing how some of these other lights would look on the stage. It's a large layout to put forward without being sure of the effect and also the diversity these new units would provide. All I know is the ones we have now spill light all over the place and provide neither a good wash or a tight beam.

 

I'll look into getting some barn doors for some of the PARS we have, if I can pick them up cheap enough and see if anyone else has any suggestions for a more suitable setup going forward. It's very annoying that we have no fixture to hang units in front of the stage (other than the side ones) it seems like one of those impossible stumbling blocks.

 

Hopefully the group will agree to start building up a larger repertoire of lanterns as it's really depressing to see the stage lit by the same 24 PARS, all on at the same time, at one level. The most adventurous the lighting ever gets is panto, when the dreaded colour mixing technique comes into play and the back and wings adopt a rather patchy mixing effect.

[Ollie]

Thank you all for the prompt responses. I guess it's just a shame I have no way of seeing how some of these other lights would look on the stage. It's a large layout to put forward without being sure of the effect and also the diversity these new units would provide. All I know is the ones we have now spill light all over the place and provide neither a good wash or a tight beam.

 

If you want to have a vague view of what it might look like, you could always d/l a trial version of capture/wysiwyg and put it all into that. It takes a bit of time but it might be a bit of help in visualising what it would end up looking like. Plus you can always jump between projects and compare before and after!

 

Just a suggestion

[Jivemaster]

Having a rig that lights the committee on the stage and having a competent drama rig and a rock n roll rig are three separate inventories.

 

With your power availability there is a prob with plugging too many lights.

 

The "lots of light from the top" scenario you have ATM doesnt really suit drama or R n R. Barn doors, some narrow and some wide PARs, and possibly for fresnels would help a lot. BUT then you will have to rig only what you need and can power.

[Jimi]

Having a rig that lights the committee on the stage and having a competent drama rig and a rock n roll rig are three separate inventories.

 

In this sense we are fortunate. we are pretty much the only one's that use the satge. all the lighting equipment was bought by our drama group and as such is the only real consideratio nwe have to think about. If it can only light drama ... that's fine.

[matt_beal]

You could always hire a few Fresnel's and have a play to see what it looks like. goochr96 is quite right about keeping an eye on power supply, but remember you don't have to use all of your dimmer capacity (Ducks quickly ) you could quite happily go for less lanterns, but better ones and still see a huge improvement on what you are seeing at the moment.

 

Either that, or try and persuade the committee to have a better power supply put in!

[Andrew C]

You could put together a design, and try a few local suppliers for a hire-before-you-buy deal. Hire the stuff in, see what it looks like, and if you buy from the same people, they subtract the hire invoice from the sale.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about having more kit than you can run at once. Having spare profiles for gobo work or specials would be beneficial over and above the basic cover needs. These are very unlikely to be on all at once, or with lots of the general cover.

 

That said, make sure everyone understands what the limits are.

[philis]

If, like many amateur groups, you are working to a tight budget. Think about getting the profiles first, before Fresnel's

because the pars, with wide lamps will do not to bad a job at a general wash, but will never project a gobo or give you a hard edge special

 

Phil

[Paul J Need]

I've said it once, I'll say it again Think side and back!

 

A par from the side with light much of the stage then one from the back.. ...................that's all I'm saying

[Ken Coker]

It is basically a number of musical numbers strung together with a lose narrative.

 

Ok, so it's not "The Cherry Orchard" so you can forget most of that nonsense about areas and 45 degrees.......

 

Three colour backlight seems possible, so that will help...look at the musical numbers; a happy colour, a sad colour and a neutral colour for the narrative?

 

A little hazer - so folks can see the beams and you can claim it's all conceptual

 

You look like you have wide- ish lamps, so that helps - make sure all the filaments are set the correct way to give you maximum width across stage.

 

A useful wash colour - 176-ish is always a popular choice; avoid that 136 nonsense....if it really does look both warm and cold then I'm David Hersey....as someone as said, a little frost may help spread the beam.

 

Don't go too heavy with the frost or too wide with the lamp head otherwise you'll lose too much light.

 

Don't be afraid of explaining to the director what your rig will and won't be capable of....if you do it now you can both work together on it.

 

Have you got a follow spot or two? Can you use them for individuals and their songs? Can you put gobos in them and use them as a wash at some point? (Gloves to remove the gobos with.....!!)

 

 

Er...........that's it....

 

 

KC

[Darth]

I'd agree with a post from above, Rig up a few booms in the downstage wings, and/or some of you pars on footstands just infront of the pros, I've used lamps in these positions for a few shows after seeing them used at Glynborne. I've found they make excellent problem solving tools, because you can pretty much guarintee that the first row of performers will be lit, and if you have the angle right you wont get big shadows across the back wall because the spill will end up in the wings.

 

And as the man said, followspots are very, very useful if you have a limited budget and a few mates.

 

Out of interest, what bubbles do you have in the pars? (CP60 is narrow ish, CP61 is medium, CP62 is wide - and the most common).

 

In terms of colour washes, I would clump your pars on the offstage edges of the bars (three per side), and put a Red / Green / Blue combo with defusers and mix from there, and use your front on stuff to warm up faces.

 

As for buying some stuff, try www.usedlighting.co.uk. I'd get some Selecon Acclaims (the 18-34 degree zoom versions are £120 each), they are fairly low wattage (575w I think) and very good all round lights. Your main problem is power, what wattage are your dimmers? If they are only 500w units then your very limited and you should get a 1k unit asap, if you have at least one 1k then dont worry about it so much...