UK Councils & Noise

[Big_L]

Hi,

 

I'm peripherally involved with a largish (2000+) event coming up soon. It takes place place inside, and in the grounds of, a venue which is more used to corporate/conference events than the live music sort of thing which we're working on. It's in a semi residential area, although the site itself a decent size (about a mile across) and the action will be pretty much in the middle of the site. In the past there have been problems with the council regarding noise during the event, apparently the council has insisted that one of the fairground rides be removed because of this, and has apparently threatened that they'll simply shut the event down if it is 'too noisy'.

 

On outdoor events I've worked on in the past, there has simply been a max spl set for the site perimeter, presumably as a condition of the license. This would seem to be a logical and definitive way of doing things. I was wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of any national guidelines/legislation regarding this, if they exist. Do local councils really have the power to make such a subjective judgement without an obligation to provide a clear definition for promoters?

 

L

 

Mods - I've put this here rather than in 'Sound' or 'Tech Chat' because it seemed most appropriate....feel free to move it if you feel necessary

[paulears]

Yes - I'm afraid they do. Alton Towers have this battle still running - some people living just outside the boundary want the noise levels limited to virtually bird-song level, as they were before the park was built. It's got gradually louder over the years and they do a number of music events there that have severe restrictions on levels on their outside activities.

 

Remember noise pollution is usually part of the caseload of the environmental heath department - and in some cases, they have powers to seize the PA! - maybe a good idea to take the stereo of somebody in a tower block playing music in the middle of the night, but a bit more awkward with a huge event and thousands of people.

 

That said - I've always found the council in my own area very helpful - I had a few noise complains and I called them in myself - they came round and set what they considered to be a fair level up to 11pm, and another for 11-1 which I accepted. In this example this meant I could actually go LOUDER until 11 as I'd kept the levels a lttle low. When the next complaint arrived I passed on the business card he'd provided, and the problem went away. This involved just 3 nights, but was in a fairly built up area.

[Jivemaster]

The way forward is to liase with the councils Envirnmental Health Officer, come to an agreement, and possibly monitor your compliance. Most EHOs are more reasonable when involver at the planning stage than if they arrive at 11pm with a police escort.

[Simon Lewis]

Big L,

 

As Jivemaster suggests, the way forward is through planning. However, although EHOs can be reasonable and helpful, they know that well meant statements of intent do not always translate into acceptably quiet events. This is why there is usually some form of EHO monitoring at larger events.

 

There are some acoustic consultancies (Capita Symonds springs to mind) who will act as a professional intermediary, talking the EHOs language and negotiating acceptable limits. They will then be able to translate that into a technical realisation of loudspeaker type and location in order to maximise your event's success but with minimal environmental impact. They should also be able to monitor the event with staff and instrumentation that the council will accept as valid. Unfortunately, they won't be confident with you walking around the perimeter with a low cost SPL meter!

 

Even if you cannot run to using such a specialist, you must set up a meeting with the EHO and establish a reasonable mode pf operation, loudspeaker placement, operating times, guide levels etc. Because noise is a statutory nuisance under the Environmental Protection Act 1990, the fact that your event may cause a nuisance (i.e. be audible!) is sufficient for them to have concerns.

 

In the past, there have been guidelines from the (now defunct) Noise Council on urban stadia used as entertainment venues. The problem with a single figure limit is that modern audio systems and performers can vary considerably in output and spectrum. From memory, concerts by Madonna at the old Wembley received few noise complaints, whereas U2 provoked dozens. The latter apparently used multiple Servodrive cabinets which caused significant near infra bass energy to be heard/felt in Maida Vale....

 

Better stop...or I'll type for hours ;-)

 

Simon

[Jivemaster]

As an alternative, can you involve the neighbours? They will not be likely to complain if they are part of the event.

[Big Dave]

Boundary sound levels are normal set as part of the terms of any event license. However as has been said above, communication with the appointed EHO in advance of any event will make your life a whole lot simpler. Most councils only have one or two people assigned to cover enviromental noise and most of the time they have far too much to deal with but they are generally very proactive and helpful if you are seen to be wanting to make their life easier.

 

Be nice, be understanding and treat them with respect and you will always come out with a happy medium.

[David]

Inviting the neighbours dose not always work.

 

We used to live in the grounds of a very minor stately home, Elton john played a gig in front of the Big house, our house was at the most 100m behind the FOH position. . The local EHO took readings at our front door 2 days before the gig to find the ambient background levels and set a upper limit.. On the night of the gig we were invited along with 20 of our guests, we were in the VIP enclose, the EHO was at our front door, The noise level went over and he issued an enforcement notice to turn it down. The house was empty, his reply to why, It had to be set to a fixed point, the point for that gig was my front door, despite the fact we were giving it large in the VIP area (and crew catering)

 

David

[Simon Lewis]

Boundary sound levels are normal set as part of the terms of any event license.

 

Problems can still arise even if the event follows the limits set at the boundary. Atmospheric conditions, degree of background noise, degree of low frequency energy (which will not be "measured" in the A weighted Leq) can mean the reading says "OK" but houseowners think differently.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your statement, but would suggest that in the difficult world of noise nuisance, keeping the event at the stated boundary level may not stop complaints being made.

[Big_L]

Thanks for all the replies so far, I totally understand the need for a proper dialogue with the EHO, and am aware that a site perimiter spl isn't as effective as it might appear but it is at least an absolute guideline which can be measured

 

What I'm wondering is whether it really is a case of whoever is on duty that night deciding on an arbitrary 'reasonable' level, or whether, particularly bearing in mind this is hardly a disco in a village hall, the EHO is obliagted to provide something more absolute, it just seems to me that one person complaining could result in a event being shut down! Who defines nuisance?!

 

L

[Brian]

In theory all LAs should be working to the same 'rules'. To help, they fund an organisation called LACORS. However, the reality is that not all LAs have the experience to deal with all eventualities and, if unprepared, any enforcement officer may end up 'making it up on the spot'.

 

If you talk to your LA now they will have time to consult others on what is 'industry practice'.

[Simon Lewis]

In theory all LAs should be working to the same 'rules'. To help, they fund an organisation called LACORS. However, the reality is that not all LAs have the experience to deal with all eventualities and, if unprepared, any enforcement officer may end up 'making it up on the spot'.

 

If you talk to your LA now they will have time to consult others on what is 'industry practice'.

 

There is variability..... AFAIR some councils in Scotland favoured inaudibility as a nuisance criteria. Round here, they're more likely to enforce the WHO's suggested 35dB limit in the dwelling. However, it is up to the LAO to define whether the noise constitutes a nuisance.

 

If it's a big public one-off, they may be more amenable than when they attend a club that repeatedly generates noise complaints. The degree of experience varies too - some councils have little noise work to do, others have lots.

 

My comment concerning consultants highlights a trend where an acoustician does the liaison between a non technical promoter and the council. The promoter then has an expert acting on his behalf, dealing with the PA companies, taking measurements and liaising with the LAO. Many local authorities feel "safer" with this approach.

 

BigL - if the council do agree to a perimeter limit, then get someone with a proper SPL meter, the knowledge of how to use it properly and a mobile phone ;-) If your event has multiple stages, you will need to work out which stage is too loud. Chris Beale has developed some interesting solutions.

 

The usual problem with perimeter measurements is that the music can be indistinguishable from the background noise as far as the SPL meter is concerned, but is still audible as a sound that is different from traffic and other background noise. Therefore, you could meet the perimeter limit and still get complaints. In fact, you can meet the limits and get complaints from those who can't hear you, but know that the event is happening ;-)

 

You may find a case study on the Association of Noise Consultant's web page interesting. Click on "Publications and Guidelines", then scroll down to "Noise Control at an All-night Event at Turweston Aerodrome". It is a good example of how these events are actually handled.

 

Thankfully, my days of standing in a hedge holding a SLM at 3 in the morning are now over....

 

 

Simon