Hiring PPE

[Michael Beere]

From what I understand the idea is to set a working line and a back up line one side of the beam hang the first chain block then use the steel strops to transfer along the beam to the other side and hang the last chain block. The beam is going up hill and only can be access on one side. it has various interruptions on the beam and cant be walked on from above due to the roof being sat on top. The beam height is 4.5 m and the seating is to narrow to insert a mobile scaf tower.

[Seano]

... beam trolleys ...

Beam trolleys (and beam clamps - same thing without the wheels, essentially) can be pretty awkward to rig.

From the original post, I was thinking that the ends of the beam are accessible, but not the centre. I had a mental image of a beam accessed at either end by a catwalk, inaccessible elsewhere along its length, and too close to the ceiling to allow movement along the top of the beam rather than underneath.

 

I hadn't thought of the other compelling reason for this approach - the OP has just done a level 1 Irata course, and is desperate to show off his new skills.

 

Ive got very limited climbing experience,I cant picture what your trying to do using steels.

I'm not 100% sure I understand what the OP is describing, but if I'm right, there's something along those lines shown here. The person in the picture is aid climbing along the underside of a structure using two pulley systems. Another approach would be to use etriers - a kind of short rope ladder made of webbing. Both methods are hard work if your technique is right, and if it isn't, well...

[frazer]

Mikey/Sam,

 

Are you absolutely certain you can't get a scaff tower in if you were to remove the seats? The seats are simply bottled in to the floor.

 

I'm also certain that you could fit a 2' wide scaffold tower in then. Remember PPE should only be used as a last resort.

 

Frazer

[Michael Beere]

From looking at that picture thats a carbon copy of the idea. Just out of interest what qualifications would a rigger need, from looking at your profile thats your area of expertise. If you dont mind me asking what qualifactions do you have? (seano)

 

Cheers for the help

[Seano]

From what I understand the idea is to set a working line and a back up line one side of the beam

And what is the proposed method of access to rig these lines? Are you talking about using a ladder to put the ropes in, before climbing back down the ladder and ascending back up the ropes? hmmm...

 

The beam is going up hill and only can be access on one side. it has various interruptions on the beam and cant be walked on from above due to the roof being sat on top. The beam height is 4.5 m and the seating is to narrow to insert a mobile scaf tower.

 

If the beam is not level, that may present difficulties of its own. Also, if it is not part of a roof truss, that rings alarm bells as to its suitability for rigging points on in the first place. Who has determined that it can take the load?

 

If the beam is only 4.5m high, why is it not possible to access each side separately by means of a ladder? Are you aware that working at a relatively low height (below about 6.5m) introduces extra complications to do with shock absorber deployment in fall-arrest lanyards.

 

The seating is not too narrow for a scaff tower unless its also too narrow for the punters' legs. You misunderstand. The usual approach is to build the tower with snap braces perpendicular to the rows of seats, and a pair of legs on each of two different levels. There are often reasons why this isn't feasible, but the reason you suggest is not one of them. I would have thought a reasonable understanding of various conventional methods of access would be a pre-requisite to being competent to determine that some wacky roped access approach to the job is necessary, no?

[mpjones]

Having followed this thread so far, what the op has proposed is a workable means of access as a last resort if no other reasonable access is possible. BUT it should be carried out by qualified and experienced people, in a work context IRATA level 1 does not qualify you to carry this out, on your own.

Not only should you have working at height training but also working at height rescue training, not even going to mention, risk assessments, and method statements.

 

you are proposing using wire rope slings of 500kg wll, these are not rated high enough for the use of working at height, wll is not the SWL, on training courses I have been on it has been recommended that a point being used for working at height should not be less than 1000kg SWL.

 

As I am away from home at the moment I cannot look up all the data and figures to place on here, There are others that are far more up to date than myself Seano, Trussmonkey and I am hoping Chriss Higgs will jump in on this with his infinite knowledge

 

Mark

[frazer]

Just for everyones benefit, the I beams that Mikey and Sam are desribing are like these. http://www.persiacad.co.uk/site/objectinfo...%20Beams-01.GIF.

The roof sits directly on top of the beam and due to the circular holes within the beam, moving along it as they describe is not easy.

[Seano]

Overlapping posts ... I'm obviously spending too much time thinking about my reply each time..

 

Just out of interest what qualifications would a rigger need, from looking at your profile thats your area of expertise. If you dont mind me asking what qualifactions do you have? (seano)

There are no recognised qualifications for rigging in the UK yet. There is a scheme in the pipeline which looks very likely to catch on, the first batch of candidates on the pilot scheme will be beginning their assessments next week.

 

The current system is a bit archaic, but it kind of works. In the beginning one works with (and is supervised by) more experienced people. Prospective new employers (clients, whatever) get references, unofficially, from those more experienced people. Over time you build a reputation, which either enhances your chances of finding work or, um.. doesn't. :)

 

Aaargh, can't keep up...

 

IRATA level 1 does not qualify you to carry this out

Quite agree, though it doesn't disqualify either. As mentioned before nothing qualifies someone to undertake this kind of task alone, in the sense that there needs to be a rescue plan in place. This means there needs to be a rescuer in place, which would imply at least two suitably skilled people. Aiding along the underside of a near horizontal structure is a lot harder than it looks - rescuing someone in that situation is an order of magnitude harder again. That would be a difficult rescue requiring serious experience.

 

Perhaps the rescue plan should be one guy with a set of tree loppers, and half a dozen more with a blanket to catch him in, in a Keystone Cops stylee.

 

you are proposing using wire rope slings of 500kg wll, these are not rated high enough for the use of working at height, wll is not the SWL, on training courses I have been on it has been recommended that a point being used for working at height should not be less than 1000kg SWL.

Not quite right. You're confusing SWL, WLL and ultimate breaking strength.

 

Fall arrest anchors need to be rated to EN795. There are nylon climbing slings that comfortably meet this standard. Typically they're rated at 22kN, which is a minimum breaking strength equivalent to 2 and a bit tonnes. Hence, if they were lifting slings (which they're not) they'd have a WLL of only about 400kg. SWR slings used as fall arrest or work positioning anchors are generally made of 7mm steel.

 

Here and here are a couple of examples of such slings.

 

Of course, if the OP were thinking of using steel wire rope slings rated at about 1 tonne SWL - do you seriously think anyone who knows anything about rigging would struggle to find somewhere to hire these?

 

As I am away from home at the moment I cannot look up all the data and figures to place on here

I'm not sure data and figures are necessarily what this thread needs. :)

[mpjones]

Thanks Seano

 

found what I was looking for on wll and SWL http://www.irata.org/uploads/healthandsafety/WLLSWL.pdf

[Michael Beere]

So what where saying here is that these strops are not designed for anchor points here and here

 

1m 7mm Galvanised steel Anchor Strop

[Pete McCrea]

Just taking several steps back....

 

You obviously have a concept that you want to realise. This requires hanging something from a beam that appears to be part of the roof support system. To undertake this properly, you need to have proof that the beam has the capacity to support the entire load that you propose, both the static weight of the items (truss, motors, rigging hardware etc), and the dynamic weight that the rigging of these items will incur on the structure. If you don't have a SWL marked on the beam, Engineers report stating available loading, or plans with SWL marked on them, the the access method is irrelevant because you shouldn't be hanging anything from the beam.

[mpjones]

Good Morning Micheal

The strops that you have encluded the links to are designed as anchor points. and I stand corrected, note though the WLL is 5000kg not 500kg as in your first post, not a small difference.

 

Mark

[Michael Beere]

I'm actual quite confused myself now. I own 2 Lyon steel strops exactly same model as the one in the second link but abacus the second link say they can hold 5000kg and there WWL. Lyon say they can hold 500kg and they are WLL. So don't understand that one. Can anyone make sense of this.

 

Question on the loading of the beam, the main engineer of the campus has given us complete plans and his knowledge that the beam can take more than enough weight we need to complete a temporary FOH bar and a permanent one.

 

 

 

 

Cheers for all the feedback

[trussmonkey]

seano has it spot on.

 

beam trolleys would be by far the easiest and most practical solution as it would mean that you only have to climb the ladder once to rig your points.

[Michael Beere]

We would like to use beam trolleys but the beam is full of interruptions all the way along it either side, e.g. trunking for working light, rsj clamps for AC and all stage electrics trunking for there install. Would show some pic's of beam and venue but cant work out this URL thing.