Hiring PPE

[Sam_Lowers]

Hi all,

 

Does anybody happen to know if you can hire PPE legally (I know it is personal kit) but I have seen ropes and harness for hire before, but these are not what I am looking for.

 

Just wondering if anybody knew because I have to set up an aid climb at the end of the month and need 10x 1.5m steel strops.

 

Any feedback will be great!

 

Thanks

Sam

[Seano]

I'm having a hard time picturing what you're talking about, can you go into more detail?

Do you really mean an aid climb (ie: daisy chains, etriers, and 10 points of aid) or are you actually talking about leading?

If the former, what are your belay arrangements? Will the climber(s) be leading or on a toprope?

 

What is the purpose of the climb?

If you're talking about setting up an artificial aid climb for recreational climbing, you're probably on the wrong forum. You should also hold at least an SPA. I'd suggest getting in touch with Plas y Brenin.

[Sam_Lowers]

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

 

I am rigging some FOH chain hoists but a ladder is not tall enough or at a safe angle to get to the I-beam.

 

What I need to do is to rig my rope lines for my ascent then transfer onto strops to move along the beam to the rigging positions. I will be moving on 3 points of attachment like I was taught to on my IRATA.

 

 

Hope this is a bit clearer

[kim]

Sam

 

I don't know of anyone who would hire you anchor strops, but I reckon you could buy them for not much more and a lot less hassle, plus a good addition to your current kit.

 

Also personal means it protects only the person using it, not that only one person can use it.

 

Contact me off the forum if you want any more help.

 

Kim

[trussmonkey]

Lyon equipment in Cumbria sell Petzl and their own slings for not much money really. looking in the catalogue a Lyon 120cm sewn sling MBL 25kN is £ 3.35 . thats nothing really. and it certainly wont break the bank. you wont find anyone who hire's ppe because it is like the acronym says PERSONAL. if you did manage to find some one it would probably make better finacial sense to buy them then you get multiple uses out of it.

 

TM

[Sam_Lowers]

it would probably make better finacial sense to buy them then you get multiple uses out of it.

 

Cheers so far everyone.

 

I would love to buy the 10 that I need but am a little short on funds right now and there is now way that I would trst putting my entire weight on nylon strops when they are wrapped around metal beams!

 

I will have to keep on researching

[eviljohn2]

Wouldn't it be better to hire a MEWP for this sort of adventure? Or does the building make that totally unfeasible?

[Sam_Lowers]

Wouldn't it be better to hire a MEWP for this sort of adventure? Or does the building make that totally unfeasible?

 

It would be nice but our FOH is above the audience and on steps - it's a bit like an ampi theatre.

 

I can see this being the only pheasoble way unless anyone else has any other ideas

[Jivemaster]

Sam, I dont rig or climb! BUT If the device costs £3 and you need 10 thats £30 and NO-ONE is going to hire them to you for less, because no-one hires anything for £30 by the time delivery and vat are accounted for. There may be a minor tax advantage in hiring vs buying but it's of no value on a £30 job. Keep looking for an alternative method or route. You life is worth more than £30 so would the blood spattered seats be.

[paulears]

Sam - if I've monitored this correctly - you want to set a rigging point and are usuing your mountaineering skills to get you up a rope to do this?

 

I'm not sure this really comes under our roof - seems far, far outside our usual work areas, and who would decide if it is safe working like this - from the outside it seems positively scary - but maybe in the climbing world perfectly normal. All I can say is that if somebody came into my venue and intended on climbing up a rope, with or without safety equipment that I understood, there is no way on the world I'd approve it - I don't understand climbing technique or even the wording you are using, so how could I tell if it is safe. The other issue is that by asking the question, you are basically telling everyone you are not sure - which is an automatic 'failure' in the is it safe stakes in my book.

[Seano]

How high is the beam? The aid climb you're describing sounds, frankly, bizarre.

 

Have you looked into using a zip-up tower? You should talk to your friendly local scaffolding company. The seats/steps are not necessarily an obstacle, though if access requires removing a seat or two that would still be a more sensible option than your aid climb. Obviously the tower needs to be erected by someone competent.

 

I assume from what you say the ends of the beam are accessible (next to a catwalk?), and the top of the beam is accessible (since it seems you're planning to sling it). Is there not room to move along the top of the beam? its always a lot easier, requiring hands/feet and a suitable fall-arrest arrangement (such as a sling + suitable shock absorbing lanyard - x2 if there are obstacles to pass).

 

Is the beam level, and are the bottom flanges unobstructed for its entire length? If so, how about putting the points on beam trollies at the end and then just walking them into position from the floor?

 

If you really want to impress your pals with your roped access prowess, can you rig rope(s) to ascend in mid-beam by means of a cambrium saver or two and a throwbag (stick/bow&arrow etc)? This is a pretty wacky suggestion, and seldom justified, but still makes more sense than aid climbing the underside of the beam via a load of SWR slings.

 

You might want to bear in mind that in addition to risk assessments/method statements and all that malarky, you also have a legal requirement to have a rescue plan in place. Should you become incapacitated in the middle of this adventure, who is going to get you down and how (and how long will it take - realistically)? These are questions you need to have answers to before you go up.

 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but your posts give me a strong impression that you're not competent to put these points in. I think you shouldn't be asking about hire of PPE, what you really need to do is hire a rigger.

 

Good luck

Sean

x

 

Sam - if I've monitored this correctly - you want to set a rigging point and are usuing your mountaineering skills to get you up a rope to do this?

 

I'm not sure this really comes under our roof - seems far, far outside our usual work areas, and who would decide if it is safe working like this - from the outside it seems positively scary - but maybe in the climbing world perfectly normal. All I can say is that if somebody came into my venue and intended on climbing up a rope, with or without safety equipment that I understood, there is no way on the world I'd approve it - I don't understand climbing technique or even the wording you are using, so how could I tell if it is safe.

 

The aid climb thats being proposed here is unorthadox, to say the least. Working on an I-beam at height, however, may be far outside your work area but its my daily bread and butter.

 

The WaH skills that are routinely used in many areas in our industry are derived from mountaineering skills. (Though to be fair, roped access techniques were originally developed by cavers more than mountaineers.) Roped access techniques have their place, there are well defined methods of doing things and both industrial roped access and 'climbing' work at height in our industry (which is generally quite a different thing) have a very good safety record. If roped techniques became necessary in your venue, anyone competent to plan and undertake that work should be able to give you an understanding of the techniques and the gear quite readily - its really not hard to grasp if you have the gear to hand and someone who can offer a jargon free explanation face to face.

 

Sean

x

[Jivemaster]

There is NO safe working method for one person with IRATA skill. You would be on your own with no possibility of rescue.

[Michael Beere]

Guyes,

Sam is right the theatre is a right nightmare to access anything. The theatre is a bad design and has no room for changes. The auditorium is racked seating with 15 rows of seats with a I-Beam 3 rows from the top. The beam is accessible with a lean to method but taking up any weight with one ladder is not easy. Sam's idea is spot on for our theatre but the costing of steel strops 1.5m (500kg WLL) are £12.95 each. As you can see 10 off these strops are not cheap. But would be inserting if anyone can come up with another method.

[Seano]

Once again, how high is the beam?

 

The beam is accessible with a lean to method but taking up any weight with one ladder is not easy.

So now you're saying it can be accessed by ladder? (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "lean to method", rather than something to do with a shed.) Taking carrying weight up the ladder is not necessary. Take a rope up the ladder, rig a pulley on the beam, get the chain pulled up from the floor. All very standard practice and glaringly obvious to the competent.

 

Sam's idea is spot on for our theatre

No, its not. Its somewhere along the spectrum between 'slightly bizarre' and 'Darwin-award dumb'. Not being familiar with that venue, its hard to say exactly where.

 

The means of access isn't really the main concern though, at this point. As far as I'm concerned, its more a question of competence to do the rigging job in the first place. It isn't something to just have a go at without really knowing what you're about. (And please don't tell me that Irata level 1 is any kind of qualification for a rigger.)

 

Sean

x

 

Edit: Oops - forgot to write my post before I posted it!

[Pete]

If I'm reading this right, Seano's idea for beam trolleys is still viable.

Use a rope/pulley to get hoist the beam trolleys up and walk them in to position,

Ive got very limited climbing experience,I cant picture what your trying to do using steels.

 

Pete