What news on the Light Palette?

[KtV2000]

It seems to be very quiet on the new Strand Light Palette front. We have had several visits here at work from Strand R&D people; first asking what we would like in an ideal Control Board (that was a few years ago) and lately giving us a Demo of the latest (and last?) Strand Control board - the Light Palette.

I read Rob's concise and informative review of the ETC Eos in the March '07 L&S America and while it sounded fantastic I know we will never cross to the ETC side because our total Lighting infrastructure is so emeshed in Strand products. We have developed many hacks and fixes to make the 500 series fit - like a well worn pair of Blundstones - but the cracks are starting to show.

 

Where is the in-depth analysis of LP? Has it been installed in a large PAC and proven its worth? I have heard that like the Apple iphone on its first release there are a few glaring omissions - is this so?

 

Love to get some feedback on this.

 

Kt

[Rob Halliday]

Hi,

 

Glad the Eos review was of interest.

 

We're hoping to follow it up with a review of the Strand Palette, but that's not going to be for a couple of months, I'm afraid.

 

The important thing to keep in mind, though, is that what is now being sold as the Light Palette range is not what was being 'previewed' and then advertised as the Palette range a year or so ago. That product was being developed from new by Strand; its aim was to retain the operating methodologies and features of the existing consoles (ie. you could work it as you'd always worked a 520) but then to extend the feature set and user interface (ie. when you wanted an on-screen colour-picker, say, you could re-size the standard channel screen - now just a window - to reveal new functions hidden underneath).

 

Beneath all this it was going to run on Linux (with off-line editors available for Mac or PC), and based on a MySQL database; if you didn't care about that, that was fine, but it meant that we were going to be able to get at, explore and manipulate the show data in all kinds of interesting and useful ways - I believe Strand had an example running where the console could automatically update cue data in a lighting designer's Excel cue sheet connected to the console, in real time as the programmer made changes to the show as one simple example. Plus you were going to be able to continue to use existing consoles on the network with the new consoles, and the console would write as well as read .ssf files.

 

Of course, we never saw final versions of this, but if they'd pulled it off Strand would have achieved something that no console manufacturer has achieved - a new platform that could be operated in the same was as the one it replaced while adding new features, and remained compatible with the one it replaced.

 

That project was killed when Genlyte took over Strand last year.

 

What Strand are now selling as the Palette range is another control product Genlyte own, the Horizon. As you probably know Horizon has been around for a long time, originally as lighting software intended to turn any PC into a lighting desk. Latterly, with Rob Bell (WYSIWYG's inventor) as product manager, they've expanded and improved the software and launched a 'real' console running Horizon software, the Marquee.

 

The current Light Palettes are Horizon Marquees in new cases, with changes to the software intended to make the consoles more Strand like - ie. a channel screen that looks like a 520 channel screen, the ability to talk to ShowNet networks and (promised but not yet seen by me) the ability to read existing .ssf showfiles. There seems to be some division of opinion about whether we should call then 'Malettes' or 'Parquets'.....

 

Now, to be quite clear, I'm not disparaging the Horizon range in any way. Much of it is very interesting, has benefitted from having someone who actually uses consoles in the field in charge, is used in a lot of places on a variety of shows. The 'generic fixture model', where you deal with strobes at '1hz' or 'reset' the light rather than having to mess around with lots of DMX values, is great. The capabilities of the macros - which are like a proper programming language, able to make decisions, are remarkable. In some ways it's ahead of Eos because it's had several years of real feedback from real users.

 

But.... it's not a 500-series console. Even though it now has a channel display that looks a bit like a 520, and now responds to simple Strand command sequences, it is still very clearly a different console from a different manufacturer. Sticking 'Strand' on the front really doesn't make it a Strand product because it doesn't have that Strand 'DNA' going all the way back to Galaxy. Hard to explain, but very obvious when you first sit down at the console. Galaxies didn't have 'release' keys, for example.....

 

Now, in some ways it is an improvement - and you could probably throw away many of the hacks you use to keep your 500s running.

 

But you'll also have to invest quite a lot of time learning to make it work the way you want it to work, and there are some very useful Strand functions (automod, all of the update cue thru cue functions, that kind of thing) that it just can't do - though, of course, they're promising that these functions will re-appear in time.

 

The hardware can't be fixed in software, though: so many things are operated through a set of softkeys that have no LCD next to them (you have to look at the screen to see what they do), some very important functions (cue-only, for example) don't exist as real keys, and it's much harder to just get on and do things - it's always felt to me like you spend a lot of time in dialogue boxes. Plus the 'flat' keyboard on the bigger consoles is uncomfortable and slow (to me; there are times when the console doesn't seem to keep up with what you're typing), the case is cold to the touch and poorly designed (this may sound silly but - there's nowhere to put your pen!). I don't like the positioning of the manual encoders - and there are fewer of them (on a 520 when you grab the trackball you pretty much always know that you're controlling pan and tilt; on the Palettes you have to make sure that the rotaries are switched to pan and tilt....)

 

I think there's an off-line editor available on the Strand website, so you can - and should - download it and try it.

 

But what makes this an interesting time is that (aside from ShowNet compatability) there is no reason to choose these consoles just because they are 'Strand' products; in terms of carrying your knowledge from the 500-series onto them, they're really not. Which means that now is a good time to look around and consider all of the options....

 

Of course, quite why the people who now run Strand think that killing their console range - a range that has run all kinds of shows, and is known and liked by many operators and programmers, and - certainly in the UK - is the defacto standard across the theatre industry - with something that is incompatible, behaves differently and doesn't solve many of the problems that they're loyal users have been trying to get them to solve in their new console for the last five year is beyond me. But maybe that's why I'm not a business person.....

 

Rob.

[JMC]

No Rob, It's not just you I'm afraid.. I too have been wondering this. Never before have I been so underwhelmed. You have no *idea* how much I was looking forward to the PalletOS (Linux/SQL) incarnation.. despite the dodgy case design!

 

On another note, I'm also disapointed they appear to be ditching the "cracked fresnel" logo :P

[paulears]

Looks to me as if plenty of the old Strand dealers are not having much to do with them - trying to find a guide price via google was a challenge! not many people have them in their lists. I wonder if people are not that ready to jump in and support 'new' strand yet?

[gareth]

Rob makes some very good points. As far as I can see, Genlyte have effectively killed the Strand brand as far as lighting control systems go. As Rob says, simply putting a Strand logo on the front of a product doesn't make it a Strand product in the eyes of the thousands of theatre electricians past and present who have gone through their working lives hand-in-hand with Strand controls.

 

Aside from the fact that people like what they know, you have to consider the current setups that potential customers have and how those setups affect future purchasing decisions. Take my venue, for example - a 530 and two 520s (and an SN100 and various wired and wireless remotes), all of which interact with each other in various ways. Had things still been as they were, we'd be looking to replace the 530 fairly soon - the 520s are newer, so we wouldn't need to replace them for quite some time, and would therefore by default have bought something which would fit seamlessly into the venue's lighting network, in other words a Palette. That is no longer an option, because what is now pretending to be a Palette is really a Marquee, and isn't interested in talking to our 520s in the way that we'd need it to. So what do we do? Well, a likely scenario is that we carry on until the 530 simply gives up, and then reevaluate the whole lighting control infrastructure throughout the building - and there's every possibility that when this happens there'll be a migration to a non-Strand system. So a theatre which would, in the old order, have remained a loyal Strand user will very possibly not be one for much longer. And that's only one provincial producing theatre in the UK - extrapolate that scenario across the multitude of venues that currently use Strand control, and factor in the multitude more which currently use Strand control systems in a 'stand-alone' kind of way (with no need for interaction with other pieces of control equipment, with no subsequent need to consider compatibility when thinking about replacement and therefore even less of an incentive to remain brand-loyal) and it's easy to see the dominance of Strand lighting control in British theatres shrivelling to a comparitively pathetic level.

 

I haven't used the Horizon software in anger on a production, but I've seen demonstrations of what it can do and how it is made to do it. I'm not knocking it at all, but I can think of other systems that I'd choose to use in preference in a theatrical environment - and I bet I'm far from being the only one. I wonder how long it will be before production electricians and company managers touring shows around the receiving venues of the UK find that simply taking a GeniusPro showdisk with them will no longer see them right in the vast majority of the venues that they visit? :P

[JMC]

All very interesting considering the comments made here: http://livedesignonline.com/mag/five_questions_forsteve/

 

Looks like Steve Carson is the man to lobby :P

 

The hardware can't be fixed in software, though: so many things are operated through a set of softkeys that have no LCD next to them (you have to look at the screen to see what they do), some very important functions (cue-only, for example) don't exist as real keys, and it's much harder to just get on and do things

Yes, this was one of my major points... And the response was..

..LCD’s

 

….Was really a very long debate, after spending a lot of time watching 500 series operators, most people used the screen so much, that having the information there was more important…

[Rob Halliday]

Yes, Steve Carson probably is the man to lobby......

 

However, having had a long discussion with him about this last autumn, he seems to be quite convinced that we'll all come around to Marquee/Horizon and doesn't seem terribly interested in preserving the old consoles or what was to have been 'ProperPalette'.

 

Maybe he just needs to hear that opinion from people other than me?

 

It's also worth noting, on a semi-related topic, both that that 500-series consoles are no longer available new (I believe the Barbican have received a Malette instead of the 500-series they ordered), and that Strand now have no-one who can do maintenance, support or improvement on any of the software for the 500-series consoles.

 

While this of course doesn't stop us using existing consoles on new shows, in terms of fixing known problems or enhancing the console's features, that range is now effectively dead. Which as a long-term user of them on a lot of shows makes me very sad.

 

To have to go back to typing shows into different, incompatible consoles on tour will really not be progress.......

 

(Is it just me that thinks we really need a proper, modern standard showfile interchange format to sit alongside DMX, ACN and the standards that let us interconnect products from different manufacturers?)

 

Rob.

[JMC]

Surely Bill Richards can still be of some assistance with console software support? Albeit he'll only be able to say "Oh yes.. It *does* do that doesn't it?" (Which was invariably the response even when they still had the developers on board anyway! :P)

[Brent Smith]

I've mentioned before that I work at a pretty Strand-loyal house. We were sold 2 [650i's], a [620], and a next generation Show Controller sight unseen in the Spring of 2005. These were to replace two Halls worth of dilapidated Light Palette 90's. At that point, Strand was hoping to present its new consoles in the States at LDI 05. In the interim, we were loaned two 550i's.

It has been two very full seasons with those consoles at this multi-venue performing arts center and the transition has been mostly painless. Being quite proficient at programming the LP90's, we were able quickly to resume that level on the 550's, then advance to utilizing their power and flexibility. Granted, they are a little quirky sometimes, and getting to some functions are a bit like memorizing phone numbers, but I'm crazy about them. I was really looking forward to the [600's].

We got our first Malette last week and I'm a little sad.

I've messed around with it only a couple of days so I can claim zero authority, but I do have a few first hand impressions.

First of all, the channel window. I was unaware that they changed the look of it to make people like me happy. Great. They could've made it more usable, though. It shares one monitor with several other Windows. When you drag/resize the window it changes size of the channel grid and therefore any visual organization you've built into the patch structure. You can Right-click for the option to set that to 10, 12, 20, 25 across, but it seems you can't set that into an individual User Setup. More important though, is that you can only see that many channels at a time. Say you've squeezed 200 channels onto the screen but you want to see what ch 350 is at, what do you do? [350 ENTER]? No screen change. OK, What about [350 @ 75 ENTER]? Still no change! Does it seem odd that this console thinks it is natural to change levels on a channel without wanting to see them on the screen? I may be spoiled with 3 monitors on the 550's but even there if I call a channel not shown, the screens will follow me. You can scroll manual, but it takes both hands. You are allowed a second monitor, but it seems that you are only allowed to use it for moving light attributes.

Sorry, did I say channel? I meant Fixture. There are no Channels. Now, besides the fact that Fixture is just harder to say than channel, don't you think that channel is just a little more appropriate given all the devices and parts of devices we are running of the consoles now?

I understand that people are upset about the board not supporting .ssf's but how about partial shows. That's pretty major if I can't load yesterday's cue 10, or last week's subs, or the Profile I made to compensate for our drifting Scrollers. Wait, scratch that last one, you can't make your own profiles on this board.

Of course, you should Save your show often, but this board does not start up in same state in which it was shut off. If you lose power or throw a breaker you will lose any unsaved data.

TRACKPAD!!! What? Why? Yes most actions are duplicated through the DOZEN soft keys that are always changing without ,as mentioned, the LCD's. In fact, the Manual says in bold print, "DO NOT USE THE TRACKPAD". I may seem provincial here but I liked the trackball for movers. If they had to replace that, why do it with something that is so inefficient that they have to tell you not to use it. For some things you have to use it.

As for the LCD's, more would have been better than none. How long are we to be taping Sub labels onto the board?

Sorry, The Rant is nearing the end

All right, yes, after my brief time so far, I am able to patch a show, record cues with parts and split times and such. But it is not as fluid as I am used to. I will get faster with familiarity. Right now, though I can't help but feel a little personally offended at having been abandoned by a company/product line to which I have been very dedicated. Sure they will sell plenty of these to new venues and first time buyers. I think they have just written the majority of their market off to the EOS.

If they are trying to fix this in Software they had better hurry.

 

What do you think, Rob? Would you be happy programming Mary Poppins on this Board?

[Rob Halliday]

What do you think, Rob? Would you be happy programming Mary Poppins on this Board?

 

 

Ummm....hmmmm..... How to answer that politely.....?

 

 

'Mary Poppins' in New York is currently running on a 520i, I believe the last one out of the factory. I asked for a little 'last of the line' plaque for it, but that never appeared.....

 

And I haven't figured out what we're going to do next time around. I'm waiting for the console that:

 

(a) does everything the 500s can do

 

(b) is as fast as the 500s in operation (ie. no delay when switching between screens, keyboard can keep up with you)

 

© is as reliable as the 500s in operation

 

(d) feels like a lighting desk - ie. your show is there and ready to go when you turn the console on, the screens aren't all bright white (which doesn't work so well in a product being used in a dark environment)

 

(e) is comfortable to use - ie. your hands don't hurt after using it all day

 

(f) incorporates at least some of the things I've been asking Strand and others for over the last decade

 

(g) lets me get at the show data so I can use it in ways the console makers haven't thought of

 

(h) does something that I haven't thought of that makes me go - wow, that's cool, that's worth learning a whole new way of working for (-though preferably it would add that function to a familiar environment, so it wouldn't be learning a whole new way of working)

 

 

That's not too much to ask for, is it?

 

Rob.

[johnhuson]

Ok, I've been sitting on the fence on this one for quite a while and now I think it's time to play devils advocate/put the cat among the pigeons!

 

I have long thought that Strands strong hold on the theatre industry has been largely supported by the fear of change, rather than true technological advantage. I appreciate that the ability to carry one show disk to all venues is without a doubt a huge advantage, but the rock ‘n’roll world has been touring with different fixtures and consoles around the world with no major heartache (but granted some hard work) for a number of years.

 

If show disk compatibility is important (which it undoubtedly is) then why not tour your own desk? At the end of the day this cost is minimal to your average touring production. I accept that theatre tours that do carry their own desks also have the knowledge that in general there will also be the house desk as backup, but to be honest with most modern consoles reliability is far less of an issue than the days gone by.

 

I don’t proclaim to be an expert Strand user (with 500 series anyway) but I’ve always found their way of working and methodology to be way behind current consoles for a number of years. My view is that the basic operating syntax remains unchanged since their early beginnings, but as fixture technology has grown, control functions have been 'bolted on' to an existing system rather than developing. To a point that a change is so huge it's almost incomprehensible. Compatibility and familiarity has just served to breed this culture. Consoles available on the market today are often largely ahead of 500 series technology but are ignored due to largely being ‘different’ and I challenge anyone to disagree totally with that.

 

I think in reality the change in Strand ownership is probably the best thing to happen to theatre controls in the UK. It is (as is being discussed) clearly forcing the market open and people are realising they can get a lot more for their money as soon as they overcome the inevitable learning curve involved with a new manufacturer.

 

In terms of compatibility, well as I stated early the cost of touring your own desk is largely minimal, particularly if your carrying a large amount of your rig with the tour. With generic fixture modelling which is available on a large number of consoles these days (i.e. desk stores a parameter value rather than a DMX channel & value) then compatibility is even more increased, in terms of fixtures as well as control.

 

I understand Genlyte’s approach to the new Palette consoles, at the end of the day as a business you have to work out what is the most cost effective. Continue to develop a console (a development which I guess was quite costly due to the original business needing to be sold) which is 100% backward compatible to existing (legacy) systems and maintain 98% market domination. Or use existing technology you have at your disposal to develop a new platform which takes in some parts from an existing architecture, and risk losing some of your market share. The latter option was obviously the most financially attractive which as a business has to be a large consideration. I think Genlyte's danger is they've gone at it too hard and risk losing too much of a market share....but that's another discussion.

 

Having read some of the nifty things that were planned to be possible with the new Strand consoles, I can see how they are attractive, certainly for existing users. But in reality I haven’t read anything that’s so ground breaking that it isn’t available in some shape of form from other manufactures already. Reading Gareth’s post made me realize the possible investment/cost required to move to a new platform for the more complicated installations is quite large, but on the other hand I can’t help thinking that investment has been made in recent years in what is effectively ‘old technology’ in some situations.

 

Coming back to compatability, the fact that I’m lead to believe that the ETC (AVAB) Congo can now reasonably read Strand .ssf files (though I have no experience of this) has to give ETC a huge advantage over Strand now. Having read the spec’s and had a quick play with a Congo, I would invest money in it over a Strand without thinking about it, if I found myself in that situation.

 

To sum up, it all boils down to backwards compatability, brand familiarity and operational style. To be honest is it not better that this ‘strong hold’ has been broken now and not a few years down the line when consoles are even more complicated and integrated.

 

So I'm now going to sit back and prepare to be flamed, massively. I will add that I have never been a heavy Strand user, but when I have I've found them to be unfriendly and largely different to most other manufacturers. However I totally understand peoples love of the consoles because they know them inside out. I just think there is a degree of 'blinkers' being used because Strand is so familiar.

 

I'll hide now.......

[gareth]

If show disk compatibility is important (which it undoubtedly is) then why not tour your own desk?

The problem (well, part of it at least) lies in the fact that the vast majority of small/mid-scale tours use a local electrician as the board op, rather than a member of the touring staff, so you have the issue of operator familiarity to contend with. Admittedly it shouldn't be a problem for any decent electrician to pick up enough about an unfamiliar console with a few minutes' instructin to be able to competently operate a show on it - but it's a sad fact that, while there are lots of really good electricians in touring houses in this country, there are also quite a few who have trouble getting to grips with the most basic fundamentals of their own lighting desk, never mind an unfamiliar touring one!

 

I'm certainly not going to flame you, John - you make some very good points. But I think perhaps that calling Strand's market dominance (not that they're going to have as much of one any more, mind you) a 'stranglehold' - I think it's more a function of the fact that for many years Strand were the only option for decent lighting control consoles in this country and their dominance of the market stems from that along with a reluctance on the part of theatres to take leaps into the unknown when they can just as easily stay within their 'comfort zone' by replacing a Strand desk with another Strand desk.

[Rob Halliday]

Ok, I've been sitting on the fence on this one for quite a while and now I think it's time to play devils advocate/put the cat among the pigeons!

 

There's nothing wrong with familiarity......

 

Equally, of course, there's no reason to reject something because it's not familiar, particularly if it offers new or better ways of doing things.

 

All I'm really trying to say is - why can't we have both? Why not have something that works the way you're used to it working, but then lets you learn new methods and techniques as you need them or as you start feeling confident to expand your repetoire.

 

Imagine how confusing it would be if one car manufacturer decided to put first gear down-and-right instead of up-and-left. They might argue it's an improvement. It would certainly be different. But it would not make for a happy driving experience for everyone with years of experience of first gear being up-left.

 

Different is not always better.

 

 

 

Now, with regards to lighting consoles:

- yes, you can tour one, but it's not cheap. Particularly if you're not touring much gear or, indeed, any gear at all.

 

- yes, newer desks do some things better than the 500-series. But they also throw much away. This has been a recurring theme over the entire history of memory consoles; the 500s did the same to many much-loved functions of the Galaxy, for example. Why do we keep throwing things away? Particularly things that can't be worked around. I can make a moving light go red regardless of whether I have to mix the colour manually or can use a fancy colour library. But if the console doesn't offer dimmer profiles, there is *no way* that I can make all of the dimmers behave the same way, an important issue when dealing with lots of different types of dimmers as you often do in British theatres. If the desk can't let me pull back one cue from disk, there is *no way* of working around that. It baffles me that manufacters still think that launching a product without this basic, obvious function is acceptable.

 

- when dealing with large shows with long lives you need to be able to work with the data in the console in all kinds of ways; Strand let you do much of that in the console and also let you convert the data to ASCII format that you could then do much more with (I have some bias here: my FocusTrack product uses this data to let you work with the showfile data in all kinds of ways that were not possible in the 500-series and, to the best of my knowledge, are not possible in any other console). Few other consoles let you do this.

 

 

And a correction:

- Congo can't read Strand .ssf showfiles. It can read Strand showfiles converted to ASCII using Strand's Showport utility; ETC are taking the same approach with Eos That'll get you most of the show, but not all of it, which will be an issue on very complex shows.

 

 

 

I'm not arguing in defence of Strand. The 500s are consoles that I know intimately from long experience, and so can make do pretty much anything pretty quickly, though sometimes with some tricks and workarounds.

 

I'm just dissapointed that I can't take that knowledge and build on it with a new product with the same DNA, rather than having to start again with something else. Particularly since I haven't seen anything else that is fundamentally better yet.

 

Rob.

[Trunker]

Does anyone know what the prices are for the new Strand Boards or where to get the prices from?

 

Cheers.

 

Moderation: Merged with existing topic.

[dougmorgan743]

I understand from a Strand guy that Palette can now read SSF files - software update to be released very soon. The European HQ to be set up by July 07