Film Noir + outdoors = andy puzzled

[u_dakka]

Our "magnificent" (read 4-letter-word) director wishes to continue the tradition and have the Summer Shakespeare outdoors (Taming of the Shrew). To go with this his idea is to have a "film noir" feel about the show. Outdoors. I told him I can happily supply the black, and just bugger off - but he wasnt to happy with that idea. Alternatively I would need to convince him of the virtues of doing it indoors. The budget he has given us is £1500 for everything (ie including sound,set etc). I must admit I'm completely stuck on this. Is film noir purely black and white or can it be colour as well? If it is am I just going to be better off leaving it as a whitewash, with maybe the odd hint of blue (cos the white tends to give the stage a rather warm feel - indeed is this the right feel)? The director isn't being at all helpful, and isnt telling me a similar film to base the lighting, so I'm wondering if any of you guys have had to do something similar.

 

Apologies for the English, it doesn't read well, but I cant identify where I start talking crap

 

thanks

andy

[andy_s]

my understanding of the term "film noir" is that the look is largely about shadows and contrast - this doesn't necessarily exclude colour, though I assume most people's conception of the term will be influenced by the fact that many of the movies associated with the term predate the era of technicolor....

 

It's a concept that might be difficult to achieve outdoors as my experience at least is that options for lighting angles tend to limited.

 

you'd also need to wait until it was very dark.......

 

(ps you're right about the blue rather than open white - some years ago I did relights for a dance show based on hitchcock films, the first half was pre-war (B&W) films, black and white scenery lit with lee 200, 201 and 202, very effectively. LD was Rick Fisher. second half was films from the fifties, when he (hitchcock, not Rick!) started using colour stock, so was lit accordingly)

[ross_mact]

I had the same problem at uni and it was a NIGHTMARE! Creating a film noir effect can be achieved by creating lots of shadows and having dim light sources. If you watch any old film noir movies there's always a single streetlight or table lamp which is providing the "light" for the scene. The good news is that if you get this right it can look spectacular. Think old private detective films - exaggerated shadows behind behind glass doors.

 

Blue is definitely the way to go for the white. Film Noir isn't black and white - it's light and dark.

 

Good luck! :D

[woody74]

my understanding of the term "film noir" is that the look is largely about shadows and contrast - this doesn't necessarily exclude colour, though I assume most people's conception of the term will be influenced by the fact that many of the movies associated with the term predate the era of technicolor....

 

Agreed. While the majority of what is considered Film Noir is B/W, there are other factors. Some people say that to be true noir, in addition to having the stark contrasting look, the material itself needs to be bleak, and have an unhappy ending.

 

If you are producing this as a daytime show, I'll give you the same advice I give everyone about competing with the sun: it will win.

 

It sounds like your four-letter director is the worst kind of director: big ideas, small wallet. That is not always a bad thing, but when they are not willing to compromise the "vision" at all, regardless of if what they want to do is even possible, that is when mutiny sometimes begins.

 

I was involved with a theatre company for almost 10 years, and we finally closed down because the Artistic Director would have large ideas, give people money, and then wonder why we were always broke. It's called show business for a reason...

 

-w

[David]

One of the best lighting designs I ever did was based on 'film noir' I used 4 hand held cage lamps (40w BC pearl) a 1 anglepoise (60w ES clear)

 

The cast held the cage lamps and pointed the anglepoise, all 5 lights staid on throughout the performance (great job for the board opp)

 

David

[Tomo]

All of which gives you the hint:

 

Summer, Outdoors, Film Noir - not really going to happen.

You need a good blackout to contrast the illumination with - it's all about the shadows!

 

Outdoor productions must use the multi-billion candela lightsource in the sky - you cannot fight it, you must use it.

 

TV and film uses thousands of kW to lighten the shadows cast by the sun enough for the cameras to get a good picture.

 

Your only option is to work out how to deepen the shadows - think physical set design and textured partial roofing.

[Randolph]

We are doing "City of Angels" soon and the LD is faced with creating a film noir look. His (and the Set Designer's) approach is isolation, contrast, thinking more consciously about shadow placement. They are planning to use a monochrome colour palette.

 

Sunlight has an annoying habit of reflecting off almost everything and diffusing through many things. Your options for high contrast and notable shadows would be quite limited outdoors.

 

R.

[paulears]

If the idea is to do this outside, then unless you have plenty of budget (which I don't think you have), you will almost certainly be able to produce the effect you want by accident. I've done quite a bit of Shakespear outside - which is odd, as I hate it so much, but the contrast you are looking for happens by virtue of the situation. I was doing material such as Midsummer nights in groves, castles, shruberies etc and using 650 or 1.2K lanterns on tall stands, plus rows of floor floods - close up the actors were brightly lit, but the light just vanishes, leaving the distant objects very dim - This gives the high and low lights with little trouble. Things that would work and look nice and flat indoors, with all the floor reflections and multiple sources - look very stark outside.

[Paul J Need]

A quick guide to lighting shakespeare outdoors: During Summer

 

Schedule: (LX plot)

 

Show up at 7:30 ( Sun takes care of LX Cue 1-30) ( Plus perhaps a bit of fill from 12+ PARS @FULL from FOH)

Interval LX 31 Go - House Lights up ( D'oh, sorry they already are ( Sun))

LX32 Go - House lights out (30 minute fade to black) (D'oh, sorry Sun dimmer curves are playing up)

about 15-20 minutes after the start of the second half you'll be able to think about using a slightly heavier colour than 103

thereafter this leaves about 30 minutes of show remaining where you can actually start lighting cast and set etc. the way you would like to.

 

Sure go for the film noir look, but the audience will only see 45 odd minutes of 'nice lighting' once the sun has popped off to the States for breakfast.

 

ps. Due to the angles required for the film noir look, you will need to use IP66/67 rates equipment otherwise you'll be creating weather proof prositions for a week.

 

Good luck with the show.

[u_dakka]

Liking the LX plot. rather similar to what I gave them last year (when I had about £150 to spend on lighting) this. 6 of them. always on. If they wanted good effects they need to give me the appriate budget. In all honesty the show is going to be indoors - spoke to university staff about it (and the director still has his heart set on outdoors as well), so I still need to think about how to light it. Here's the foolish bit - we only have 12 parcans to light it with from FOH (and they're all paired up with no way of altering). about 18 onstage (10 from wings and 8 from back). This nightclub setup lent itself rather well to We Will Rock You (which we just did). Not sure how Shakespeare is going to play out.

 

andy

 

PS the director is talking about having a sepia feel. Brown colour gels? do they even work? (and what would be the going rate for a small roll of gel (approx))? The only thing I can think to do with the sepia is to have a fine brown cloth draped from the proscenium arch, but that wont work in this silly venue. (nightclubs really shouldn't be used for theatre). Incidently you talk about the numbers for gels, is it a standard series?

apologies for the long PS

[roryfm]

Sepia has been covered on the BR quite recently - have a search.

HERE

or here

or even here

 

roryfm

[Tomo]

Incidently you talk about the numbers for gels, is it a standard series?

Yes!

 

There are two main gel manufacturers used in the UK:

Rosco

Lee Filters

 

Lee do more colours, Rosco have generally tougher gel.

 

In the UK it's traditional to refer to Lee gels by L<3 digits> - eg L101 - and Rosco by #<number> - eg #10

Some houses primarily use Lee and thus drop the leading "L", others primarily use Rosco.

[paulears]

Have I lost the plot. We were talking about outside - now the OP mentions cloth on the pros and a nightclub? Very confused.

[Paul J Need]

Have I lost the plot. We were talking about outside - now the OP mentions cloth on the pros and a nightclub? Very confused.

 

;) Paul, I'm standing right behind you!! Confused also!

[Tom Baldwin]

I think he's talking about an alternative venue, in which this group have performed before - basically, where the show would have to go if it doesn't play outdoors.

Else I'm confused too...