Schools We Will Rock You

[sounddude]

Hi all

its school show time again, we are doing the queen musical I have seen the show and know how many mics there can be does anyone know what is the the best way to do the show, for example there is alot of corus singing in it im nto sure wether to put shot guns down or dot some headset mics in and among the corus or if it comes to it have a backstage choir. any ideas accepted.

thanks

 

alex

[dunk_1984]

With this your best option for a mixed sound will be with positioned shot guns, as the headsets will be more person specific than chorus, however soloists/bits that need to be louder etc than the rest you would be best with headsets on them for the added gain, and clarity.

[paulears]

Much depends on the on-stage levels. This show tends to be loud. What kind of band have you got, and where are they?

 

Shotguns could work, as would pzm/pcc (plenty of recent threads on shotgun/rifle/pzm/pcc - do a google for fairly depressing info) - but the question with amateur productions is how much stage sound from the cast, vs unwanted sound from everywhere else. There are plenty of solutions, but much depends on the kit available, the space, the budget for extras and the talent of the cast and musicians. More info, please.

[tom_the_LD]

What size is your venue?

[sounddude]

hi thanks for the quick replies

 

the size of the body is 300m2 and the stage is 80m2 with a 56m2 working area.

 

The Band are a 5 piece sitting along the front of the stage as we dont have a pit they tend to control there own levels, as for stage levels the FOH will be very loud as we have 700 watt on each side plus 300 on each side on the walls, sorry for not much more details. I have an arangement of boundrys and shotguns but we have a £500 hire budget but that includes all the back drop so were looking more at £300.

 

alex

[u_dakka]

having just finished our production of WWRY feel free to PM me if you want to talk in more detail - might be able to send you some of the stuff that ive spent ages sorting out.

 

For the sound we used 4 headset mics, and 4 condensors above the stage, however they were crap cos the band doesnt know the phrase "play quietly", and so we ended up with a lot of unnessecary noise. however the headsets worked really well (when the actors didnt switch them off or onto mute, whilst onstage). Also had the band going through the PA system (as if they needed encouragement).

 

As I said earlier - feel free to PM me to take parts from our show.

andy

[Bobbsy]

I'm a great fan of subtle reinforcement (or none) where appropriate.

 

This isn't one of those times. WWRY is a ROCK show, a tribute to one of the greatest bands of the past 30 years or so. Done properly, it's going to be loud...like a Queen concert, strangely enough! Asking the band to "play quietly" on a Queen number is showing a misunderstanding of the genre! The trouble is, no form of distant miking (shotgun or PCC) is going to give adequate results at rock-style levels.

 

If the budget doesn't allow enough RF mics then amend the staging and use more wired mics. When Queen were current in the mid-1970s, there were lots more microphones on cables so this'll be right in keeping with the era.

 

Bob

[u_dakka]

Oh I know that the music should be loud, but then again I'm also a believer in the chorus actually being heard, even when they are attempting to be reinforced by the noise monkeys.

 

I have a gripe against drummers in general and this one didn't help by not being able to keep in time for any of the songs

[Bobbsy]

Oh I know that the music should be loud, but then again I'm also a believer in the chorus actually being heard, even when they are attempting to be reinforced by the noise monkeys.

 

I guess I'm that "noise monkey"...though at my age I think I qualify as a "silver back"!

 

Seriously, of course the chorus needs to be heard. However, it just doesn't work trying to mix close miked leads with (effectively) an "acoustic" chorus with subtle shotgun or PCC reinforcement on a loud, electronic-rock show. To quote Scotty "Ye cannae change the laws of physics, Cap'n!".

 

If you can't stick an RF mic on everyone, then stage the show accordingly, perhaps splitting the "singing" chorus from the dancers and standing them around wired mics.

 

WWRY is, in effect, one long concert so (for once) sound considerations have to be as important as other items of staging.

 

...well, in my opinion as a long-term Queen fan anyway!

 

Bob

[Don Allen]

Why not consider having the band on a platform at the back of the stage? They can be seen and heard, but your chorus have a better chance of being miked and there is a clear view of the front of the stage.

 

You can also get people under the band platform so you don't loose too much stage area.

[Ynot]

Why not consider having the band on a platform at the back of the stage? They can be seen and heard, but your chorus have a better chance of being miked and there is a clear view of the front of the stage.

One problem I've experienced with bands upstage of the talent is that (especially drums & amp'd guitars) you have to fight to avoid too much bleed from them into the mics that are forward of them (ie , all of them!).

So you end up amplifying the band as much as the singers thru those mics.

[Stutwo]

We have just finished this (see thread in lighting forum for a clip of it), and we had the band on a 6ft platform at the rear of the stage. We used 12 headset mics and a backstage chorus "booth". Forget trying to mic the stage itself, the band will be too loud.

 

The key to getting the chorus heard is:

a) Amplifying the band FOH only, and giving the band themselves headphones to monitor the instruments via a headphone amp (we used a cheap behringer headphone distributor/amp fed from FOH desk), althought the guitar amps were still with the band, they were manageable though that and the drumkit made it still too loud to consider stage mics.

b) giving headset mics to the best of the chorus members, spread among the different vocal lines, this means you can lift the chorus when it needs it.

c) stressing to anyone who can hear that the chorus MUST put out a lot of volume when they're onstage.

d) using a big vocal booth backstage for the offstage chorus work (we built ours from display boards and 2 AKG C1000's on tall boom stands)

 

As for the principals, headset mics are the only way to go.

[u_dakka]

due to budget we only had access to the 4 headset mics for the principles.

due to there being bugger-all stage to perform on the band were on the floor infront of the stage

due to tech only being allowed to be involved about 3 weeks prior to the run we were unable to ammend any of the choreography to allow us to have off-stage singers (ie they insisted that ALL chorus be onstage for a lot of the songs).

Agreed that the sound should be like a Queen rock show, but our budget dictated that it wasnt going to be. To make up for it my lighting and projection was superb (if I do say so myself...)

 

andy

[paulears]

The blurb that comes with the schools versions is very helpful on the staging and music.

 

I'd have to support Bobbsy - this is one show where different techniques are needed. Putting a band playing queen music in between the weedy chorus and the audience is, to be very honest and blunt - Stupid! Shows that the needs of the show have been totally misunderstood. The bum bum crash theme of the song WWRU cannot be played quietly - well not without destroying the feel. Guitar processors cannot on their own create the correct sound - you have no doubt two guitars, bass, synths and drums and possibly percusion - that is a hell of a lot of sound! With no budget for miking the chorus, then the simplest solution is to move the band further away - maybe even into a side room and amplify them - more difficult, and needs some real mixing skills, but it can work. Near me they are doing it in the round - in a circus ring - sound will be dreadful, even with umpteen channels of radios. The only good bit is the band can be up high on a bridge, meaning the audience will have line of sight to the chorus.

 

I'd suggest you chuck this one straight at the person in charge, and warn them in writing that the sound will be severely compromised unless they sort it out, now. Or guess who gets the blame?

[Bobbsy]

Besides sound reasons, putting the band on stage also makes sense in terms of what the show is all about!

 

I must admit, I'm quite taken with the idea of putting a "singing chorus" in a room off stage using a few wired mics--I wish I'd suggested it!. You can still have a "dancing chorus" on stage singing the best they can but without the worry of making them heard. Certainly this will make the mixing job much easier than trying to do the whole band...and it'll make fewer demands on a school PA if you keep the reinforcement to vocals and let the musicians (mainly at least) take care of themselves.

 

OT aside: I have a "bash head on desk" moment every time I read about school productions where the technical staff aren't involved until too close to the opening the make much difference. In the professional world, this sometimes happens because producers don't want to pay for tech staff any longer than they have to, but there's no excuse at a school. A theatre production should be a collaborative event and the best ones make use of EVERYONE'S talents. Certainly I agree with Paulears that it's time to throw this problem at whoever is in charge...maybe even print out this thread and show it to them!

 

Bob