PA System for Variety Night

[Silver Back]

Hello,

 

I organise a variety night in London and I need to buy a PA system for the event.

 

I have been to 2 shops in London and have been given mixed advice from both shops

 

One recommended buying the following equipment;

 

Mackie SRM450 Active speakers and a Mackie 1402 VLZ pro mixer

 

The other shop said said that Mackie's are not as reliable these days and recommended buying JBL's

 

Both have quoted in the region of £1000 for the system.

 

The venue holds just over 200 people, the performers use mikes and sometimes have CD tracks that need to be played. We may occasionally have someone playing an instrument as well. Have had a beat boxer perform as well.

 

Can anyone please advice me on the best course of action?

 

Thanks a lot in advance

[saturnx21]

Which JBL's were suggested?

 

B-)

[cedd]

I personally quite like the Mackie kit, all my frontline is mackie as are my foldbacks. I run SRM350's as opposed to 450's for my foldbacks and frontline is with SA1521's. The step up to these is well worth it, very nice cabinets, certainly never struggled to fill a venue. Nevertheless, 450's are that widely used they can't be that bad! The mackie kit tends to be a touch bass-heavy so a good graphic EQ will be needed.

 

I don't rate the mackie mixers as highly. If possible I'd be looking for the soundcraft or Allen and Heath nearest alternative. Far more transparent mixers.

 

Don't forget mics, stands (speakers and mics), decent quality cables and maybe a DI box just in case. They all add up.

 

See if you can do what I did, go to one place, order everything in one go, get a nice hefty discount by bartering and then just before you shake hands say "oh and that does include all the cables doesn't it?". Worked a treat for me!

[Chris Hinds]

Do you need to buy? You could rent what you describe or similar for about £40 a night...

 

Regards

 

Chris

[Matt Riley]

The other shop isn't completely wrong about the mackies. There has been some discussion about how, since mackie moved production to china, the quality of their powered speakers have gone downhill quite significantly.

 

However JBL EONs, which are similar to the mackies aren't whiter than white either - they seem to have a tendency to break drivers according to some of our pro audio american cousins who use them lots.

 

Alternatives? Good question. Secondhand (pre china) mackie 450s might be one option, as would perhaps yamaha's plastic alternative. The active version of the EV SX300 would be where my money would go if buying new though.

[jayselway]

I've had quite a few enquiries for repairs to SRM350s and 450s, where the power supply has faulted, and taken out various parts of the amplifier and limiter sections, where they haven't been driven at high levels either. Having repaired a few, I don't know whether I, myself, would be happy knowing that they could fail that easily.

 

EONs: I used to have a pair of powered EONs, and never had a problem with them, apart from the need to keep the reigns on the subs! However, as Matt says, the drivers can be a problem, as in the last year, we've had over 20 pairs in for repair. I appreciate that they are 20 different pairs, but more than a few had the problem of a wire pulling out of the cone. Then again, that goes for some of the newer 18" sub drivers, where the excursion can be OK for the cone itself, but not for the wires!

 

I personally am not a fan of Active boxes, purely because I like to have the amps as amps, and the cabs as just that. I know some have the ability to take a speaker level input, in the case of the amplifier dying, however, it's just my preference!

 

2p in pot B-)

 

Edited for clarity

[dunk_1984]

Just to add, a similar thread is happening at the moment to.

 

http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?show...c=18947&hl=

[StevieR]

Is £1000 your budget or is there more available for a better system? Personally, for variety-style work, I would be looking for a better quality of system than Mackie/JBL. These are happy enough for live bands / DJs but may not have the clarity for better vocal work. Also, a system with subs may be useful for the beatboxers you mention.

 

Steve

[saturnx21]

I would be looking for a better quality of system than Mackie/JBL.

 

Steve

 

Better than JBL? :(

 

I think that depends on which JBL range you want to use! Personally I wouldn't touch the EON range as from the few I've heard sounded.... well frankly horrid!!! But if you move up their range then they are still one of the market leaders. I have some of their Sound Power I Series cabs and I have to say that even though they are getting on for nearly ten years old they are more than capable of out preforming the majority of modern equivalents!

 

B-)

[Silver Back]

Which JBL's were suggested?

 

B-)

 

 

I haven't got the spec to hand that the guy mentioned. I know that they had a higher wattage than the Mackies.

 

About 500w

 

Is £1000 your budget or is there more available for a better system? Personally, for variety-style work, I would be looking for a better quality of system than Mackie/JBL. These are happy enough for live bands / DJs but may not have the clarity for better vocal work. Also, a system with subs may be useful for the beatboxers you mention.

 

Steve

 

If you were looking for a better system, what make would you recommend? and what would be a reasonable price to go up to?

 

Thank you very much for all your responses, much appreciated

[Bobbsy]

I don't mind the Mackie speakers at all and rather prefer them to the cheaper end of the JBL range. However, I'll let others argue this side of the equation!

 

However, a comment about the mixer. I would NOT chose a 1402 VLZ mixer. It's an older design and has a few failings that particularly show up in live work. First, the channel EQ is very poor, very unmusical and hard to get any kind of decent sound out of. Second, the power supply is a bit under-specced and you can get into trouble if you try to draw phantom power from too many channels at once. Finally, the summing amp is easy to overload if you drive channels to a decent level, and it's easy to get into quite nasty sounding distortion.

 

If you're stuck with Mackie because of a package price from a Mackie dealer, I'd look at the equivalent size of mixer in the Onyx range. Not that they admit the 1402 series was poor...but they make a virtue of the new "English" EQ!

 

That said, if you CAN swap mixer, I'd steer you hard in the direction of Soundcraft or Allen and Heath, both of which will outperform the Mackie in sonic terms and almost certainly have better reliability, better UK service and hold their values better.

 

Bob

[Rob_Beech]

A reminder that the power rating of a speaker means very little. Its long term spl capabilities across its useable frequency response are much more important. Some cheap rubbish speakers can be 1000watts each and can barely push more than 110dB. The D&B C4 is a mere 200watts and is good for 138dB IIRC.

 

I'll also remind you of what Chris mentioned early on. Do you really need to buy a system? would it not be better to hire a system from a local company (which you are not short of). That way you will have good quality gear, you can hire as much or as little as you need (some weeks you may have a large band on that requires some more monitors so you can hire in extra).

 

Rob

[Pete]

Just to add to what Rob said. There are certain items that might be worth buying. A multicore perhaps.

 

Reasoning behind this is if your in the same venue week in week out,why not pull the multicore in the first time and not have to worry about pulling it out every week? It tends to be one of the more painful jobs.

 

Just my 2p.

 

Pete

[paulears]

Remember that shops are going to sell you what has the most margin. So the shop who have an account with JBL can make more money from them, than a near cost price sale of Mackie, if they are not a premiere dealer.

 

Most music type shops don't have enough kit to allow proper comparisons - some do. Music Village, or Academy of Sound type outlets usually have systems you can demo. Having a 2 grand PA next to a 4 grand one and letting you hear both soon results in the finance paperwork coming out!

[Joe]

As you are discovering, this is a very subjective topic. Everyone has their own preference/experiences/opinions. And so I'm just going to add my own B-)

 

If this is a venture that you are staring up, are you sure that it is going to be that successful enough to justify purchasing a PA now? Hire is certainly an option that I think you should look at. In this way you can perhaps have a chance to hear some of these recommendations in action at your venue. Also if you are seeking advice on a forum like this do you feel confident in being able to get the best out of a system so that your variety night is enjoyable and not perhaps a festival of feedback (not wishing it on you).

 

I base this on my own experiences with two friends who run their own comedy club, tried to do their own PA, but felt that they were outside their comfort zone and asked me to help them.

 

You say you are in London, there is no shortage of hire companies of all sizes. Get out your yellow pages, find someone who is local give them a call. If this is going to be regular work, then you may be able to strike up a deal. If you are not sure, then PM me, I'm Reading based, so may be able to help you.

 

Joe