Upgrading loudspeakers

[Johnno]

I'm looking into replacing our school's loudspeakers. The most frequent uses for them are speech reinforcement (think- Open Days) and then drama which is also speech reinforcement come to think of it. The hall's too small ever to need acoustic instruments miking and pupils with electric guitars etc. usually have their own amps anyway.

 

My first thoughts were Bose 502s because the local Sally Annie hall has them, is about the same size, and sounds good. A Bose rep came and quoted £4k for a pair of 802s hung from our FOH centre lighting bar with an amp installed backstage. Too dear, but mostly I wasn't keen on having 30-odd kilos of non-lighting hardware permanently hanging from a prime lighting bar. (At 4k I thought it a bit of a cheek, in fact.)

 

Then I looked at EAW CLA37s but they seemed a bit "churchy"

 

Finally I googled the BR and came up with Mackie SRM450s. More touring than installation maybe, but active speakers look interesting as I needn't upgrade the PA (I've got 500W mono bridge which is ample).

 

Probably not a very inspired selection to many of you hardcore ampies!

 

Any suggestions would be gratefully considered, up to £1500, for a hall about 60x50x20 ft, seating about 200, and I'd prefer fly-ables to get them well away from sticky fingers.

[paulears]

The Tannoy dual concentrics (v12's are my favourites) are pretty neutral sounding - but again, quite heavy. In fact, if weight is an issue, then quite a few of the plastic cab 12" varieties have built in hanging points - and come in active and conventional versions. I quite like the Bose cabs, but the sound is perhaps a little difficult to get used to - most people love 'em or hate 'em.

 

There are quite a few active flyable cabs about, but again, rather heavier than their conventional counterparts.

[Simon Lewis]

The Mackie 450s are certainly a good box for the money, and I think I prefer them to the JBL EON (especially as the Eon has a rather exaggerated bass response).

 

The flypoints on the 450 aren't thought out very well, and there is the issue of getting mains and line level audio to the box if it is flown (plus the issue of level adjustment can be problematic!). I wouldn't discount powered boxes in this situation, but I would check if they were the most appropriate solution.

 

You could consider a mid range box (small Nexo, Tannoy etc.) and get a Powerdrive truss clamp to fix to the back of the speaker. It can be better than trying to hang with M10 eyes etc.

 

EDIT... I thought of suggesting V12s, but guessed that two of those, plus a Yamaha P7000 and two truss clamps wouldn't fit the budget... Then the Guru who never sleeps suggests them before I can hit "post" ;-)

[jayselway]

For smaller venues, the Wharfedale EVP series is pretty nice. I've fitted them to a couple of schools, and one tiny club, and they've always performed well. The other added bonus is that they're pretty good value for money, with a nice sound ;)

 

If you want active cabs, they do a range of those as well.

[saturnx21]

For smaller venues, the Wharfedale EVP series is pretty nice. I've fitted them to a couple of schools, and one tiny club, and they've always performed well. The other added bonus is that they're pretty good value for money, with a nice sound ;)

 

If you want active cabs, they do a range of those as well.

 

Although I have never actually fitted those speakers, I have had to set up a bar, that fitted four of there own with a management system (but didn't know how to get the best out of them!) And I have to say that they are fantastic value cabs and are rather nice sounding!

 

The venue that has them, has a reasonable amount of over enthusiastic amateur DJ's (hmmm Ynot. How to put this?) Thrashing them!!! and they are standing up to the job perfectly so reliability is very good as well.

 

HTH

 

:huh:

[paulears]

The powerdrive truss mounts look nice - but they are not designed to fit to most of the speakers we are talking abot here.

I may have misunderstood the blurb, but how are these fixed? Surely you can't suspend a 30-40Kg loudspeaker from a top point outside the CoG by a long way on a 4" plate and have a safe mounting. I can't speak for all the cabs mentioned, but the ones I am familiar with are designed with bottom panel, or hanging point reinforcement. The top panel of most is just a 12 or 18mm panel with a bit of acoustic stiffening on the inside. What kind of fixings are suggested? At the very least severe mods to the internal structure would be required, and even then - how strong would it be? As a one off, how could you tell without testing it to failure? The web site linked to has no comments that I can find about how the heavy duty bracket is actually fixed to the speaker - worrying?

[Joe]

I have used Mackie SRM 450's for both live band and theatre work for a number of years now and found them to be very good for the money that you pay. They have good dispersion which is useful if you are flying them to get the coverage that you will need. I agree that perhaps the flying points are not the best arrangement, but they are functional and more importantly, they are intended to be flown.

 

If you have concerns about weight on your lighting truss, the Mackies come in at 51lb each, so probably heavier than the Bose kit. You can get wall brackets that will allow you to mount them using the 35mm fitting such as this which would remove the need to fly, and might also put them in a position that is easier to reach if you need to make any adjutsments to the level, contour etc on the cabs.

 

Regards

 

Joe

[Simon Lewis]

The powerdrive truss mounts look nice - but they are not designed to fit to most of the speakers we are talking abot here.

 

Paul,

 

A number of the loudspeakers (e.g. Tannoy V8 & V12) have fittings to allow Omnimount brackets to be used. Where the Powerdrive blurb refers "75 plate or 100 plate", then if the speaker already has those fixing points, the corresponding Powerdrive plate and clamp will fit. Be careful though, the numbering system's changed, and some data sheets from Tannoy (and Canford) are incorrect.

 

For a single box mounting, I do not see a difference between Powerdrive and Omnimount...

 

If one was trying to fix a Powerdrive unit onto a box with just woodscrews, then the usual alarm bells would ring!

 

Simon

[jayselway]

If one was trying to fix a Powerdrive unit onto a box with just woodscrews, then the usual alarm bells would ring!

 

Oh we've all seen it though!

 

I was working on a job, and the noise boy came along with four Beyma Cabs. Not light things at all! - They had Powerdrive units on them, and were "secured" with 4 woodscrews, and a collection of washers so the screws wouldn't fall through the plate! Just to make it better, each box then got a hook clamp fitted to it, and on to the LX rig they went! :o

 

I haven't wandered underneath them yet, however several people have bumped their heads, as the base of the cabs is around the 5'10 mark. :(

 

For the Wharfedales, I'd definately go for the wall mounted top hats. They're not stupidly heavy, but the box is a box, and if they were meant to be flown, they'd have proper flying points on them! B-)

[Mark Payne]

http://www.qsc.com/products/speakers/hpr/

 

Just very very very good for the money. I was shocked just how good these were.

Meets your budget also. And it's not a tupperware product. Go for the 2 way 12 inch.

 

You can PM me for a demo if you would like.

 

Anyone else heard these as I am interested in what people think?

 

Mark

 

 

I'm looking into replacing our school's loudspeakers. The most frequent uses for them are speech reinforcement (think- Open Days) and then drama which is also speech reinforcement come to think of it. The hall's too small ever to need acoustic instruments miking and pupils with electric guitars etc. usually have their own amps anyway.

 

My first thoughts were Bose 502s because the local Sally Annie hall has them, is about the same size, and sounds good. A Bose rep came and quoted £4k for a pair of 802s hung from our FOH centre lighting bar with an amp installed backstage. Too dear, but mostly I wasn't keen on having 30-odd kilos of non-lighting hardware permanently hanging from a prime lighting bar. (At 4k I thought it a bit of a cheek, in fact.)

 

Then I looked at EAW CLA37s but they seemed a bit "churchy"

 

Finally I googled the BR and came up with Mackie SRM450s. More touring than installation maybe, but active speakers look interesting as I needn't upgrade the PA (I've got 500W mono bridge which is ample).

 

Probably not a very inspired selection to many of you hardcore ampies!

 

Any suggestions would be gratefully considered, up to £1500, for a hall about 60x50x20 ft, seating about 200, and I'd prefer fly-ables to get them well away from sticky fingers.

[dunk_1984]

Just to add, a similar thread is happening at the moment to.

 

http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?show...c=18957&hl=