Small theatre, big video demands - help!

[little_jaie]

Hi,

 

I am working on an amateur production at the moment, due to go on stage in May. Although the theatre is small (seats 85), the director wants to do something a little special. The director has asked for 2 x 28" LCD flatscreens, and wants these screens at the back of the stage. We will be showing pre-filmed various character asides and "crowd" scenes (which I'm intending to play off of a DV player), as well as some stills (which will probably be shown off a laptop). In addition, the 2 LCD screens will be showing the same images most of the time, but will need to show independent images too.

 

My initial instinct was that this was definitely a situation for a vision mixer, but a colleague mentioned that a switcher would be cheaper. This production has quite a small budget, so every penny is very precious. Which option is best? If I used a switcher how would I get this to work?

 

(I am normally a noise girl, and all things video are new to me, so please be gentle :huh:)

 

P.S. - If this has been covered before, I apologise. I have had a hunt through old posts, but couldn't find anything that would help me - If I have missed a topic that is relevant, please point me in the right direction!

[Pete McCrea]

Sounds more like you want a matrix. That allows you to send the inputs to combinations of the outputs. Some will deal entirly in one signal type, others will be able to undertake some degree of signal conversion. The former will be cheaper to buy/hire. If you could get the media to be run from the same signal type, then that might make things easier.

 

The other option assuming the LCD's have Computer (also refered to as Data or VGA inputs) could be to create a slideshow/presentation for each screen, and run each computer independantly. If set up right, it would appear to be running the same footage, no one except you knowing that it was actually two independant PC's running it.

[little_jaie]

Thank you for replying!!

 

Now for the stupid questions:

 

What kind of brands should I be looking at for a matrix?

How do I get all the media to run from the same signal type? - i.e. do I need to put it all on one media source type such as a laptop, or put it all onto a DVD?

I like the idea of running the clips off 2 computers. I will be hiring in the LCDs so I have to option to get ones with VGA inputs. Would there be any "trick" to getting these in syncronised other than just pressing play on them at the same time? What is a good media player to use so that I can get a true full screen without windows active window bars etc showing?

 

Thanks for your help on this - it is much appreciated!

[GazBar]

We did a similar thing recently for a production. I used 2 laptops each set up with a remote control sensor. I set up one transmitter to control both. Each laptop was connected to 2 screens. I created a powerpoint for each of the machines and ran them side by side for the performance. Worked much better than I had expected.

[blackbird]

Or if you don't have any remote control sensors to hand (desktop pcs), then I'm almost certain you could get away with y-splitting a PS2 mouse or keyboard (someone correct me if I'm talking rubbish).

 

Also, not that I would encourage this, but if you're looking for some software to play video a bit nicer than powerpoint, you can get a fully operational 21 day trial of Arkaos VJ, which may be long enough for your run.

 

Moderation: Suggestion of ways to defeat copyright protection deleted. We will not condone copyright piracy on this forum.

[soundo26]

What kind of brands should I be looking at for a matrix?

How do I get all the media to run from the same signal type? - i.e. do I need to put it all on one media source type such as a laptop, or put it all onto a DVD?

Hi;

 

Kramer & Extron are two companies that manufacture Matrix units, you will need to ensure that you get a VGA (XGA / SXGA) with the 15pin Dsub connectors not a bnc one which works at video level. it will be specified something like a 4x4 matrix meaning it has four inputs and four outputs where any of the inputs can be fed to any of the outputs selected

this will allow you to take your two inputs and feed them separately to your two screens, and then you will be able to route one of those inputs to both screens when required.

 

kramer have a base in Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, can't remember the number right now, but they would probably be the more affordable option.

 

As for your question on matching output types, you will need a switcher/scaler, this is a unit which allows you to feed in different signal types and output them at SXGA to a projector. These are made by the same manufacturers as the Matrix units and again kramer would probably be the cheaper option, many of theirs also have the option of inserting a picture in picture which is quite handy. can't think of the Kramer model numbers to look out for but the Extron ones would be the USP405, MGP462 or the bigger and more expensive ISS 408.

 

hope this helps!!!

[henny]

why not keep it simple.

 

edit up your dvd I such a way that it pauses in the right places, on stills black etc,

 

the adobe ancore can do this, if you set it up to go to a different menu after each clip then that menu links to the next clip ect.

 

the menus can be black screens or stills , and you don't need any visible on screen buttons. you can also loop clips ect

 

we resentley sent out a presentation for a guy that wanted video/stills ect but just wanted a simple go button for each cue, so we just connected a switch across the play button of a £20 tesco dvd player , and put in our carefully edited dvd and it was idiot proof.

 

ian

[Tomo]

I would go for dual PCs or edited DVDs

- The Kramer and Extron kit is extremely powerful and I love it dearly, but it's not cheap!

(The Extron MGP units were >£4000 to buy last time I used one - don't know how much to hire)

[mac.calder]

Re the Extron - you can still output and input VGA signals to an extron with BNC connectors - just use RGBHV->Dsub tails. Works a treat. The Extron's I have seen have all had scalers in them, and the BNC models can take pretty much any input with the right set of tails and output at the required resultion. They are, as Tomo said, not cheap.

 

I would avoid DVD... DVD is yucky and almost always looks unprofessional - unless you spend money on a good professional DVD player that does not show the annoying little || and I> symbols. I would go the PC route and use either powerpoint (yuck) or a video editing application - I saw a show run off of final cut pro the other day, pausing it, skipping scenes, doing slide shows... worked well.

[Olie]

If you are clever you will get LCD screens with multiple inputs. You can then have two PCs with one PC feeding both screens and then the other just feeding one of the screens. When you want them to be independant you just use the RS232 remote to change the inputs.

 

This is the cheapest way I can think to do it (assuming you have computers freely available to you). No switchers or matrixes required, just a VGA/composite/S-Video splitter.

 

You may want to take a look at Screen Monkey for running the video clips, it is free and was developed for your type of situation.

 

You could also feed the output of one PC into the input of another using a capture card. When they you want them the same you just switch to the capture input. You can get pretty good capture devices for around £80.

 

All depends on how much money you have to spend.

[little_jaie]

Hi guys,

 

Thank you all for your different opinions on this - it's been great to think about it from different angles and solutions. I have now got a figure for how much I'm allowed to spend (not alot at all), and the requirements have changed slightly - in addition there will be 3 live video cameras that will also need to be fed to the screens at various points.

 

Olie - I like your idea of using 2 PCs and running screenmonkey on both.

 

I think with a creative use of capture cards and switchers I can incorporate the live camera feeds too.

 

Quick question about screenmonkey - what source option do I need to select to get screenmonkey to switch to a source connected to the capture card? Olie - can you PM me? I have quite a few questions!!

 

Thanks!!

[IRW]

Not sure if I'm too late on this one, but Maplin do a snazzy little switcher which I've found a use for on many occasions...

 

Find it here

 

It's £14.99 and allows you to plug in four input devices and send any of them to two DIFFERENT outputs.

 

i.e. Each output has four switches associated with it, you just press the button (1 to 4) you want to send, so you can send exactly the same source to both screens, or two completely different sources.

 

I'm not sure how well it would work, but if you need five inputs (3 cameras and two computers) you could try daisychaining the units to give you 7 inputs to two outputs!

 

The only downside is that it only has phono inputs/outputs, but most laptops nowadays tend to come with s-video ports, and most large-format TVs will have a composite input, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem!

 

Ian

[gnomatron]

3 live cameras, multiple sources, and 2 independent screens is a tall order!

 

The setup depends on what you need on the two screens. You might get away with two matrix switchers, as long as they have frame syncing, and pass-throughs so you can connect them in series.

 

Using Final Cut Pro on a computer to playback your videos is a good idea - Arkaos is great, but isn't designed to handle sound, and it seems like you might need that. Depending on the sort of content, you might get way with a DVD for some of it, but don't rely on it for anything that might need to be paused, start immediately, etc - you'll need a very good dvd player to do that sort of stuff reliably.

 

Most folk above mention VGA etc. - it's great, but you can do it reasonably well, and more cheaply, with video signal, eg. S-video or composite.

 

That maplin switcher should work, but it'll look rubbish. There'll be a noticable jump when you switch the signal. Mind you, for 15 quid it might be worth it!

[IRW]

That maplin switcher should work, but it'll look rubbish. There'll be a noticable jump when you switch the signal. Mind you, for 15 quid it might be worth it!

Agreed, however the OP mentioned 'amateur show' and not a lot of budget, which in my experience may mean a bit of 'doing without'!

 

Disregarding the little blip you get when changing sources, I've never noticed a problem with quality of the video coming out of the unit (as far as composite video goes) when I have used it, and I had it running a projector and 26" TV once! :unsure:

[FraKtus]

ArKaos is great, but isn't designed to handle sound, and it seems like you might need that.

 

While ArKaos focus on video control we do play the audio that is encoded in QuickTime movies.

 

So if you need audio and are on PC, stick to QuickTime video (we recommend photo-jpeg) and it will work.

 

Also the playback of audio in QuickTime files work in almost all possible ways of controlling the media (playing it faster or slower, forward backward) with the exception of using the position controller method.