Live Sound Recording

[Tom Newman]

Following on from my post on GCSE music recording, the school is producing a Sixth Form Fashion and Talent Show as part of their fundraising this year.

 

I am, as usual, technical director for the event and am in charge of coordinating the sound and lighting for the event, as well as the stage management. I'll be running the sound for the event, alongside my designated lighting technician and stage manager.

 

Although I have experience in live sound engineering, I do not have much experience in sound recording. I have acquired a M-Audio Firewire 1814 sound card and Adobe Audition 2 for multitrack recording and would like to multitrack the event. We have a live band playing, as well as vocalists and a pianist featuring in some of the acts.

 

The school currently has a Behringer MX9000 mixing desk, as well as a rack full of standard sound engineering equipment such as compressors/expanders/gates/limiters, EQ, effects processor ... the list continues. I aim to mic up the band and pianist using a selection of dynamic and condenser microphones (the school has several SM57, SM58 and AKG C451B microphones).

 

My only concern is that the direct outs from the mixing desk are POST fader and therefore could be, if I'm correct, effected by the EQ and gain levels set on the desk - something I wouldn't want on the recording. Do you have any suggestions as to what I could do to avoid this?

 

 

Kindest Regards

Tom Newman

[paulears]

make up some insert splits - a short cable that basically remotes the insert socket. a 3 circuit plug to socket, with the send circuit in the socket end also connected to a plug to go into your audio interface. This works pretty well - although you'd need to check to see if the inserts on this desk are post or pre eq? To be honest, it's often easier to buy some ready made ones from people like CPC then just add the 'sniff' cable.

[Jivemaster]

Do a simple recording, AND mic everything for another recording. It was the single mic recording of my old school show that made it to the 30year re-union. one mic into a ferrograph! only prob was the assembly of old tapes spliced together had all faded differently so the sound changed at each splice.

[Tom Newman]

Thanks for the quick reply guys, but I can see a couple of problems with your ideas:

 

1. I may be using the insert sockets on some of the channels for processing.

2. I've got to mic everything anyway as its a live sound production.

 

Do you think it would be worth splitting the signal?

Or would it still be ok to take the direct outs into the sound card and just adjust the gain levels in the software later?

 

Cheers

Tom

[paulears]

No Tom - the idea of the sniff lead is that the insert socket is still available - just on a short bit of cable, not on the desk. On my system, I've actually got the inserts remoted to a patchbay - with separate in and out sockets making patching effects and processors really easy. The 'out' from the send also runs straight to an HD24 recorder in the rack - works a dream - but as you say, it does mean sometimes having mic channels that are for recording only - for me, often a stereo pair on the audience, and often extra drum mics that PA wise - I don't really need.

[Tom Newman]

Ah ok - thanks. That sounds like what I need - I've got plenty of insert cables - where's the best place to purchase a "sniff lead"? I've searched for it on CPC but can't find one on there - any ideas?

 

Cheers

Tom

[paulears]

The problem with flying leads is the 3 circuit sockets don't have switching facilities - the simplest and cheapest way is to buy a cheap patchbay - Behringer type. Look on CPC and find the usual insert type leads (3 circuit one end, 2 separate 2 circuits on the other. You then need to chop off the moulded plug from the send circuit, and replace it with a normal soldered on version. You also need some other leads using whatever type of plug your interface uses. Hack off the plug on the other end and solder both the chopped off ends to the new mono plug. insert into the patchbay and away you go. Some of the leads cpc have are pence - not pounds and buying cable and connectors is more expensive. This also saves quite a lot of time.

 

The alternative is to dump the patchbay and use a chassis socket on the end of the cable, wired so that without a plug in, the send and return are shorted. wire your sniff directly to this, making sure it's the send circuit you 'tap'. Looks a bit cack without an enclosure, but can be improved and kept safe wityh a bit of large diameter heat shrink if you are that way inclined.

 

I don't know how handy you are - but this is just basic soldering and fiddle factor. When I did mine, I'd spent the week before making up dozens of cables and the thought of soldering on 96 plugs didn't appeal!

 

For what it's worth, I clustered the cables in groups of 8 and covered the 8 cables in expandable sleeving and heat shrinked the ends. I actually used re-an patchbays, but I have a Behringer or two and they have proven pretty reliable - a quick back and forth of the switches on the top being the only 'servicing' in the past two years.

[Tom Newman]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I understand what you're saying but I think the easiest (and cheapest) way will be for me to just split the signal before recording. Would splitting the signal work? Also, the inputs on the soundcard have no pre-amp; would this matter?

 

Tom

[cedd]

If you split the signal pre-desk the yes it will matter a lot, levels will be far too low. You really need to be post - pre amp which does mean sniffers are the order of the day. Only other alternative is a true "live" recording, nice stereo pair on a stand at the back of the hall. Slightly noisier, but even if you were using a multitracked close mic technique, I'd be tempted to do this aswell anyway. You've always got it to fall back on.

 

Personally I run a soundcraft folio sx which has switchable direct outs, so no problem there. As an aside, if your desk has sub groups and you're routing these to the mix (i.e. a drum kit) you may find the sb group outputs still have the signal on them, so this condenses sayyour drum kit onto 2 channels without touching the main mix. Levels will of course vary as you change the level of the sub in the main mix.

 

If you go for splitters with a pre-amp before your interface (sounds messy to me!) I'd look ata straight passive split for what you're doing. I made one up which is still doing a lovely job to this day. Just 3 panel mount XLR's per channel, a ground lift switch if you're getting really posh and a projet box. Nice and simple, no transformers, nothing. Works absolutely fine.

[MarkPAman]

Yes it would, though if I've looked up the right sound card it has two pre-amps, 8 line inputs & 8 ADAT. You will need pre-amps for the line inputs otherwise your mike signals will be far too low to be of any use. So the simple way of doing this, if you want to split the signal, is to use another desk for the recording, and use the direct outs on that.

[Tom Newman]

OK. I'm still trying to work out what exactly I'd have to do to use an insert sniffer. If I were to purchase a patchbay what else would I have to do?

 

Just looking for something simple, and cheap. Mark thanks for the advice on another desk, but the school's very limited budget wise at the moment ...

 

Tom

[bigglesuk]

I'm not sure what your limited budget means. Looking at what you have already you could split the signal (8 x XLR splitter cables) and put them into something like an Behringer ADA8000 pre-amp strip. That also has AD converters in it so you can record into the ADAT input on your sound card. The unit is about £160 and that set-up won't affect your live mix at all.

 

Cheapest way of getting XLR splitters is to make them yourself, a nasty job, but saves money.

 

Adam