Brikworm

[MarkPAman]

Hi

 

I've been looking at this BrikWorm. It's not in a finished state yet, but I've exchanged a few emails with Chris Burrell who is putting it together and it looks to have promise at a reasonable price.

 

Please have a look & let me know what you think.

[Bobbsy]

By coincidence I had occasion to look at that web site about ten days ago as the BrikWorm was being considered for an installation I'm peripherally involved with.

 

The trouble is that, at present, there's an almost total lack of technical detail on the site. Without better info, this one gets filed in my "maybe interesting...tell me more when it's ready" pile. Well, mental pile if you know what I mean.

 

Obviously there are already other systems actually in production that let you replace your multicore with CAT5 so it's going to come down to the price/performance of the finished product.

 

Bob

[Simon Lewis]

It helps to deal with the problems associated with copper multicores, but the approach looks to be more "practical electronics" than professional audio...

 

I'm not keen on having to put terminators into the unused channels, of going A to D to A and to D to A again if I'm using a digital desk. I'd want to know that the preamps are as good as whatever desk I'm using, I'd prefer my digital desk to control the stage preamp ( a unit is priced but there doesn't seem to be details?), and I'd like to know what's happening to the signal at the stage end - there doesn't seem to be remote monitoring? The use of jack sockets belies a semi professional approach, and the overall price seems to suggest a budget approach?

 

This may well meet a specific need, but I suspect it won't replace a professional digital solution.

 

Simon

[chatterbox]

yes I agree - the use of jacks and not XLR's make it seem a little semi-professional.

I am sure it will fit some needs but again - not sure that it will replace a full digital multicore - especially as mackie and yamaha have promised a very well priced digital multicore very soon.......

SHEILA

[MarkPAman]

All good points above.

I should say that Chris intends to have a "Brik" with ADAT/Lightpipe for digital desks.

I quite agree that it's never going to do Pro events, only 24 channels for a start. But for smaller stuff, and some flexible install possibilities, I'm going to keep my eye on what happens next.

I fully agree that much more tech spec is needed to tell if it's any good. I assume that'll be published sooner or later.

 

....mackie <snip> have promised a very well priced digital multicore very soon.......

SHEILA

 

Though with no splits in it. If I pay £3000 (I think) for a multicore I want splits!

[cedd]

I've been in touch with the guy on several occasions. There is quite an in-depth discussion about it on Sound on Sound entitled "multicore alternatives". It appears he started with Behringer optical AD's and then built a converter to cat5. Now he's polished it and got rid of the Behringers. What's nice is that he has an easy remote control of gain, and it's only RS232 so you could run hypeterminal on a laptop or even as I'm thinking, get on with VisualBasic and right some simple software for remote control.

Have spoken to him on a few occasions and he does seem to know his stuff certainly. I'mseriously considering it, especially after the gig I've just had! I could really get used to having one reel of Cat5!

As for splits, well the signal is propogated to all "Brik's" regardless of what type they are, so you could strap 2 mixer ones (output) to the same cable and get 2 of the same output.

Brik's have to be wired in series by the looks of it, but I'm sure I can live with that.

 

One concern that was raised was feeding power down the Cat5 cable itself, though I suppose he's right in that when there's no power at the stage end, it's quite useful.

 

C

[MarkPAman]

I should make it clear that it's the Mackie one that does not (or will not) have any splits.

[mackerr]

I should make it clear that it's the Mackie one that does not (or will not) have any splits.

Having the digital split is a nice thing for marketing, but does the FOH mixer really want the Monitor mixer having control of his mic pres? It's even worse the other way round with the FOH mixer having control of the monitor mic pres. Anytime you have a digital split, it is going to be after the mic pre, so only 1 console can have control. I have used quite a few different digital signal transport systems, and even when there is a digital split available I would use an analog split before the inputs. There are a couple of systems (Digico D5 and Yamaha PM1D v2) that allow quasi control at both consoles, but those are integrated systems where that kind of control can be implemented. Without matching consoles, ie in a stand alone multi, it is unlikely to happen.

 

Mac

[MarkPAman]

..........does the FOH mixer really want the Monitor mixer having control of his mic pres?

 

You are right of course, each desk should use its own pre-amps.

 

Talking specifically about the Mackie:

 

I should have made it clear that it was not a digital split I was thinking of. A simple analogue passive (or better TX) split before any pre-amp would make the system much more flexible. As it is, if I want to use this multicore with a monitor or recording desk, I'll need to have a (32 way?) splitter box and the Mackie stage box on stage. It seems that what I gain in using less copper, I loose again in steel boxes!

 

I've been thinking about splitting digital signals. The Mackie system is going to be specific to one desk (TT24) which has a second (digital) gain after the A/D. I am imagining that a properly set up system will have all the analogue pre-amps set with enough headroom to not need any adjustment during a show, and small adjustments will be made with the digital gain. I realise though, that this may not always work well in the real world.

[Ben Langfeld]

yes I agree - the use of jacks and not XLR's make it seem a little semi-professional.

 

Bear in mind that these are at line level, so TRS jacks are probably appropriate.

[Rob_Beech]

Bear in mind that these are at line level, so TRS jacks are probably appropriate.

 

 

Whilst this is very true, there are no TRS Jack inputs on such as the ML3000. Just to pick a random desk there. A "choice" of XLR or Jack would no doubt be a better idea. Of course there is no problem with making up the necessary leads, and multipins, but its a little off standard.

 

Rob

[cedd]

Personally it works out pretty well for me, I use a folio Sx mainly for band work and it has XLR for mic level, jack for line. Even if it wasn;t the case, there are so many looms around now that it shouldn't be too hard work to get one for the mixer you're after. I wonder if the Jacks were to save on space? Scaling it from the connectors, it seems to be a fair bit smaller than a 19" rack width, though apparently there'll be a rackable one available. If it's the same size as a standard multicore stagebox (or mabe a touch bigger) then it really is very useful indeed. Of course there is mor ethan just one box, but the Roland digital snake for instance is huge! in comparison and really not worth the space and weight you save on the cable.

 

Personally, I quite like the "feel" of this product. My own conversations with the designer give me the impression he's "one of us" who's made a product to counter the problems that he personally has encountered. Might be wrong of course and lease don't use my words as a reason for buying it, but he's very keen to let me have a look and a play before I decide to buy (if I decide to buy - money and all that!).

[mackerr]

I've been thinking about splitting digital signals. The Mackie system is going to be specific to one desk (TT24) which has a second (digital) gain after the A/D. I am imagining that a properly set up system will have all the analogue pre-amps set with enough headroom to not need any adjustment during a show, and small adjustments will be made with the digital gain. I realise though, that this may not always work well in the real world.

All the Yamaha digital consoles also have the second, digital, level control. This is how the "gain sharing" on the PM1D v2 works. Once the mic pre gain is in the ballpark you turn on gain sharing. After that, one of the consoles in the master, and has actual control of the mic pre. Any changes in the mic pre made on the master console causes an inverse change in the digital attenuator of the slave console. Any changes made on the slave console only effect the digital attenuator, so there is no effect on the master. Midas took a different approach and included an analog splitter and 3 independent mic pres for every channel. This is cool if you have 2 or 3 XL8s on the same show, but if you only have 1 you have paid for, and are transporting, a splitter and 2 mic pres you probably aren't using.

 

Mac

[Pete]

This is cool if you have 2 or 3 XL8s on the same show, but if you only have 1 you have paid for, and are transporting, a splitter and 2 mic pres you probably aren't using.

Mac

 

I'd guess,that if you were doing a gig with a XL8 then you'd probably have a monitor desk.

[Matt Riley]

Unfortunately the problem is that if you're doing a 3 way split with the XL8 system, you have to have an XL8 on FOH, and XL8 on mons and an XL8 doing the OB feed, and the hire costs for such an arrangement for a couple of weeks would probably buy me quite a nice flat.