miking up a big band....help

[sonitus85]

hello all,

towards the end of the week (sat 10th) I have the task of engineering the local university big band. I have been a live sound engineer for roughly five months and as of yet have not had the pleasure of reinforcing a big band. as of yet I have received no spec for the band but I presume that it will be saxophones, trumpets, trombones, and a rhythm section including a solo vocal mic. I am fine with the rhythm section but the saxophones, trumpets, trombones etc I am not sure about, do I individually mic the instruments or do I mic the sections?any help would be great

cheers in advance andy

[munster]

hello all,

towards the end of the week (sat 10th) I have the task of engineering the local university big band. I have been a live sound engineer for roughly five months and as of yet have not had the pleasure of reinforcing a big band. as of yet I have received no spec for the band but I presume that it will be saxophones, trumpets, trombones, and a rhythm section including a solo vocal mic. I am fine with the rhythm section but the saxophones, trumpets, trombones etc I am not sure about, do I individually mic the instruments or do I mic the sections?any help would be great

cheers in advance andy

 

I regularly work with a large big band and tend to use a SM58 for every two people in the band (trombones, saxs, etc). This offers sufficient reinforcement and also allows a mic to be close enough for solos. It may sound too easy but it does work very well.

 

Good luck

[timtheenchanteruk]

From memory, as its a while ago, I used to help out with Syd Laurance, and they just left the band itself to it, with mics in strategic places for the soloists, the hall was fairly large (750 seater) but this was their usual setup for any hall, unless really huge, in which case they "got someone in"

[andycat]

hello all,

towards the end of the week (sat 10th) I have the task of engineering the local university big band. I have been a live sound engineer for roughly five months and as of yet have not had the pleasure of reinforcing a big band. as of yet I have received no spec for the band but I presume that it will be saxophones, trumpets, trombones, and a rhythm section including a solo vocal mic. I am fine with the rhythm section but the saxophones, trumpets, trombones etc I am not sure about, do I individually mic the instruments or do I mic the sections?any help would be great

cheers in advance andy

 

In my experience (as a player with pro big bands) saxes are miked, sometimes individually, sometimes 2 or 3 on section of 5, 2 on 4 trombones, 2 on 4 trumpets. Drums, not usually depending how big the venue, maybe a couple of overheads, but certainly don't give a pop mix to the drums, bass or piano!

 

Upright or electric bass? The band have to hear and feel the bass even more than the drums, which can be difficult with an upright. Also, the sound isn't bass heavy for an average big band and shouldn't be.

 

If there's a guitar, be careful. It's not a typical sound they'll want, with some using 2 mics and a DI in the mix for one guitar dependant on style.

 

Any mic could and will be used as a solo mic possibly at some point.

 

Vocalists can be picky, with very specific monitor mixes, but the main thing is less is more all round.

 

From a players point of view they'll want whats coming out their instruments, not what you think should be coming out. I've had some very frustrating times with big bands and sound men, even though I know what they're trying to do, it's not necessarily what WE want to sound like!

 

The best sounding gig I've done was completely acoustic besides a couple of solo mics in Bridgewater Hall a few years ago. There was enough beef for that hall without amplification, and it was a joy to be in charge of the dynamics.

 

Enlightening having the shoe on the other foot sometimes!

[Bobbsy]

What size of venue and are you competing with any other sounds?

 

I ask because big bands are inherently very loud before you apply any reinforcement at all. Quite commonly, all you need to do is provide a mic for announcements and/or vocals and maybe (but even this isn't essential) occasional mics for instrumental solos. Generally the band leader will be pretty aware of the balance and dynamics and will look after these himself. Unless your system is a good one, lots of open mics can do more harm than good.

 

I know it's fun to play (been there, done that) but sometimes less is more.

 

Bob

[MarkPAman]

I'd echo what Bobbsy said. I did a big band about 2 weeks ago & only had vocals & a bass clarinet through the PA. There were other mics on stage for a jazz band that was playing later, and I moved them into "useful" positions, but I found no need to turn them up.

 

Now I think back though, I may have put piano in the drum monitor. ;)

[andylouder]

Taking in what the previous posters have said , a quick tip to help you get set up.

 

This may appear a little cynical ( joke ).

 

Most of the band will be seated , possibly the horns at the back may stand , but usually they all like to sit.

 

If you start by setting up all you mics and leads on the stage , where you expect the band to be , it will all get in a mess.

 

Make sure someone who knows the band , comes in early to set up all the chairs and music stands , and electric for music stand lights. If this is not done, its possible , the band will turn up in dribs and drabs , stand around chatting , sorting through scores , fiddling with reeds and mumbling about needing chairs and music stands.

 

Make sure the chairs and music stands are not all on top of each other , so that you have enough space to get your mic stands in. If you have some spare looms or breakout boxes(sub boxes) it helps to place them at the end or in the centre of the rows of chairs so you don't end up running loads of cables all the way back to the stage box , also helps keep it a bit tidier , easier to fault find duff lines , and easier to pack up.

 

Even if you are only responsible for sound , and its not your job to do the chairs and music stands ( and power for stand lights ) it will become your job if no-one else does it. Can tend to slow you down and make it a bit more stressful when you want to get on and soundcheck.

 

Don't be surprised if what you thought was going to be your soundcheck , turns into the band rehearsing , making sure they all have the right score , and deciding who plays what solo , You may have to be firm with them if you want them to stop playing as a band , so you can check the level of individual instruments.

[Jivemaster]

First and foremost, Listen to a big band on the radio or on disc.

 

Remember it will be a loud sound naturally, the need for re-inforcement depends on the venue, you may not need much. Consider asking the leader, look at putting the vocals over the brass.

 

Keep the bass in proportion, it's not commercial dance! BUT the bass will be tuneful so it may challenge some bins.

[andycat]

hello all,

towards the end of the week (sat 10th) I have the task of engineering the local university big band.

 

How did it go in the end, and what did you do?

 

Andy

[sonitus85]

towards the end of the week (sat 10th) I have the task of engineering the local university big band.

 

 

How did it go in the end, and what did you do?

 

Andy

 

hello,

very well thank you. in the end I ended up using 3 sm58s on the sax, 2 trumpet and 2 trombone sections one mic for every two people which seemed to give enough reinforcement when somebody soloed they just stood up to the mic. the drums I just used to overheads I also miked the piano, guitar, vocals and di the bass. but overall it was quick and easy to get a nice mix and the conductor of the band was very happy in the end. so all in all a succesfull and fun night really. thanks for all the tips guys!!

 

cheers andy

[paulears]

ha ha!

 

The posts above are all on the mark - re: the range of mic styles. I've done quite a lot of Big Band stuff over the years (I did Syd Lawrence too, when he was alive and played the trumpet - my first experience of big bands) and have even played in a couple.

 

You can be presented with a rider asking for all sorts, yet when the band arrive the leader requests a vocal mic only - and nothing else at all! 1200 seats and still you'll be asked to turn them down! On the other hand, you will need to mic either all, sections, or soloists. Bass may need tweaking - even though most have small combo amps for their db. Piano may well also need some treatment.

 

The problem is that you really do need to understand the big band arrangements. This is difficult to put into words but I'll try. You cannot set faders and make a pleasing mix and then leave it. The melody lines get passed around between songs, and sometimes even within. A good example with a Miller arrangement as an example is Moonlight Serenade. You need to pick up not just the clarinets, but the one or one(s) who have the melody, not the harmony. If the arrangent has been tweaked to suit the makeup - you could find the melody suddenly continuing on an alto sax! In a smaller room, the natural internal balance of the band lets this work without you getting involved. Once you start to mic up - especially if you use a central mic for a section, or even a couple, is that the nearest players to the mics will be loudest in the mix - these people may have inner parts only and hearing a familiar tune but with harmony prominent is really odd - and ruins the song. Watch out for soloists. They will leap to their feet with no warning and can suddenly swamp your mic that was being used as general 'cover'. Some band leaders will also insist on suddenly grabbing the mic and stufing it down the bell of the instrument - if you don't catch this the audience suddenly get full level, and no doubt distorted too! Don't assume that if they haven't grabbed the mic at the start of the solo, they won't suddenly remember half way through. I have a memory of the New Squadronnaires with Anne Shelton (for the youngies, a very famous wartime singer - who, bless her really lost it in the late 80's but carried on - despite rumours that she was totally pickled throught) - they recorded the show in an aircraft hangar full of planes, and the TV boys came in with stacks of U87s and everything was miked. Great sound, BUT all the TV viewers heard were the inner parts - the melody was totally lost on virtually every song - sounded simply wrong - but high quality wrong! Pensylvania 6-5000 was almost laughable.

 

 

The best advice would be to see if you can find a big band video - not a CD. and watch while you are listening and see if you can work out who is playing what you are hearing - get to really know the sound of an alto rather than tenor. Make sure you can spot when the alto sax player puts it down and picks up a clarinet or flute - very different volume levels - and clarinets are notorious for being directional - almost as if the damn things fire like a rifle. Saxes tend to gently 'open up' as the player plays higher - with the bell sound being harsher but from more than a couple of feet away, perfectly fine. Clarinets tend to be mellow at a distance, but because of the straight bore as they wave from sid to side (they do this a lot) everytime they pass the mic you get a strange honky crescendo.

 

Large format mics tend to be better than a hand-held cardioid - a 58 on a stand does work, but does encourage the band leader grabbing it and shoving it down a bell. Big format mics don't let this happen.

 

Last thing - cabling. It's quite common for people to keep getting out of their seats and walking back and forth to the front and doing a solo at the centre mic. Very often it has perhaps been left on for inter-song announcements or a bit of vocals - you may discover that instead of shoving the fader for these solos, be prepared to shut them off!

 

 

Big band balancing is probably the hardest thing you will do - you need to be on the alert all the time, and really know big band arrangements.

 

 

You will know quite a bit by the end of your first show - guaranteed.