Hanging CODA4s Sideways...

[merlin24]

Done it on more than one occasion, with absolutely no problems. Not the best for the lamp but it did the job......

[Ynot]

Ive tried it as experiment before and with cheap lamps in a security floodlight, filament drooped with minor vibrational provocation and pushed against envelope, continued operating but with bubble of tungsten and fused quartz glass.

Have seen blown out toughened safety glass on floods before, dosen`t even need to be switched on just weak and it gets a jolt. Kinda sore point cos just about got wiped by exploding fresnel some years ago.....

OK - let's talk like for like, here.

The Codas, whilst using a similar bubble holder, is most likely to going to have a better quality mount etc than your average 2 a penny B & Q security light. And using the cheapy-cheapy Homebase K1's is again not necessarily the best option in any orientation. Quality K1's are NOT that expensive from a decent supplier.

 

We're also not necessarily talking about the same method of use to a security light, which will turn on and off (esp with a PIR) regularly going from potentially very cold to hot in an instant. In a Coda in a theatre environment you're not going to give it that jolt, because even when bumping the circuit on, there's still a slower rise-time and it's highly unlikely that it has to go instantly from a very cold start.

 

Now, I think I've already said that it's not something I'd recommend as a standard fixing, BUT if the Codas can be properly and safely hung in a vertical to side light a cloth, then it's up to the user to decide whether it's worth the risk of losing the odd bubble and possibly degrading one end of the holder. And to be honest, after just a week of use in this orientation (assuming it's not going to be on full all thru the play), I doubt it will affect it that much.

 

I used the Codas precisely in this way some years ago because I wanted that side light to be nice and even, using the asymetrical reflectors to give the right sort of cloth wash. They were in the vertical mode for a fortnight of that run, and have been back up on the flood bar ever since - I think it must have been at least 4 years ago - and have performed fine ever since - there has been NO change to the bubble holders at all, and I have had NO issues with them as a lantern.

Operating way outside design parameters is usually something frowned upon around these parts ;-)

Now, here, your smiley maybe belies a criticism of the use of a lantern to achieve a desired result. I would maintain that AS LONG AS all safety considerations are taken into account, if the kit does what it needs to then that's an acceptable deviation from design parameters. I wouldn't have run to Strand saying that the bubble holders had worn excessively as a result, purely because of the non-standard use - I'd have just bought the bits ad replaced them.

 

Yes we can and do stretch the envelope, or push the boundaries - quite often. That's how we learn. But it's HOW those boundaries are pushed that determines whether it's a responsible push or a foolish one.

 

In this case, I'd say it's an acceptable risk, but one to be assessed by the (hopefully) experienced man on the ground.

[Modge]

I've certain seen it done with our coda 4s clones. We used 2 half couplers on each for rigging. Worked just fine. Was only for one gig though, rather than a whole run of a play. Context wise It was a 70's disco theme night, they were used with different very saturated colours in them pointed into the audience. We didn't loose any bulbs and to be honest the bulbs in those things go so rarely it's untrue *touches wood*. There was also a ridiculous number of par cans in pointed into the audience (I mention this only because the memory still makes me smile).

[musht]

Yes we can and do stretch the envelope, or push the boundaries - quite often. That's how we learn. But it's HOW those boundaries are pushed that determines whether it's a responsible push or a foolish one.

 

In this case, I'd say it's an acceptable risk, but one to be assessed by the (hopefully) experienced man on the ground.

 

 

Test was just a security lamp housing on the deck for the specific intention of trying an experiment, it was running for probably couple of hours, on a dimmer to see if soft atarting helped , it didn`t, cheap lamp `cos didn`t expect it to survive. In this particular experiment really dont think quality of lamp or holder greatly affect it, Osrams finest in a decent holder still isn`t meant to be burned at 84 degrees further over than manufacturers reccomendation.

 

The result as I have said was with the slightest vibration the filament slumped into the quartz glass but the lamp continued to light with blister in the side.

 

Look at a K series lamp, the filament supports are coils of wire holding the filament away from the lamp walls.If you tilt the lamp the supports and filament want to bow to the forces of gravity and escape from the envelope.

 

Tungsten halogen description misses out other important property of this type of lamp against a normal general lamp servive, GLS, lamp. Quartz Iodine used to be the old description, the iodines gone replaced by cheaper bromine but the quartz glass is one of the marvels that makes the lamp work.

 

Quartz glass is soft, it can stand operating temperatures far higher than normal glass, but it does this by approaching melting point at operating temperature, seen a fingerprint balloon on a bubble?

 

Fingerprint balloon on a lamp weakens it considerably, and halogen lamps can go with a bang, bore you with few examples, sure you could add your own:

2k fresnel, not switched, on gets hit by bar flying past, decides to complain, blows front lens out and just about decapitates me with gel frame travelling at speed.

security flood starting in frost lamp explodes and blows safety glass in a suprisingly wide arc.

Toddler getting showered with hot quartz from one of those exposed 10W LV `sparkle` halogens that used to be in shop entrances, just a random failure, there are low pressure bubbles for exposed lamps now but there wasn`t for years though the fixtures were sold and installed.

 

For fingerprint balloon read slumped filament, vitrified envelope from improper burning position or non passive filament failure from improper burning position.

 

Now if you have to explain to your insurers the steps you took to try and avoid a dancer getting a faceful of hot shattered safety glass at high speed , personally would like to be able to point to lanterns data sheet and demonstrate that it was being used within the manufacturers reccomendations, which interstingly for Coda dosen`t mention burning position apart from top or floor mounting. Seen K series lamps packed with burning position reccomendations.

 

It is not a safe reccomendation , there is pushing boundaries and there is doing something that is demonstrably the wrong thing to do and the wrong tool for the job. MR16 battens sound much much safer.

[Andrew C]

How many times have we read here "You can stuff DMX down mic lines, you might get away with it... but it really isn't right"? Similar thing here, you might get away with it, or someone gets blinded. Your call...

[Ynot]

Test was just a security lamp housing on the deck for the specific intention of trying an experiment, it was running for probably couple of hours, on a dimmer to see if soft atarting helped , it didn`t, cheap lamp `cos didn`t expect it to survive.

So not really a comparable bench test, then... ;)

..........bore you with few examples, sure you could add your own:

2k fresnel, not switched, on gets hit by bar flying past, decides to complain, blows front lens out and just about decapitates me with gel frame travelling at speed.

security flood starting in frost lamp explodes and blows safety glass in a suprisingly wide arc.

Strangely enough, bubbles have been known to blow in perfectly ordinarily hung lanterns..... And lanterns get banged all the time by ham fisted stage crew or over-enthusiastic flies!!

Now if you have to explain to your insurers the steps you took to try and avoid a dancer getting a faceful of hot shattered safety glass at high speed , personally would like to be able to point to lanterns data sheet and demonstrate that it was being used within the manufacturers reccomendations, which interstingly for Coda dosen`t mention burning position apart from top or floor mounting. Seen K series lamps packed with burning position reccomendations.

Actually, I could probably describe to said insurer that the inbuilt mesh screen on all our Codas (plus the additional minimal protection of the lighting gel) did what it was supposed to do and prevented that burst glass from showering said dancers. So what are you doing here again, Mr Insurance Man?? :P

It is not a safe reccomendation , there is pushing boundaries and there is doing something that is demonstrably the wrong thing to do and the wrong tool for the job. MR16 battens sound much much safer.

And I will repeat what I've said before - when doing anything non-standard all the safety aspects and risks need to be assessed. On the occasions that I've used Coda's in the vertical I've had NO problems. Neither have the handful of othere here who've done the same. That doesn't mean I'd recommend or even suggest they be hung like that permanently - far from it. But on a one-off basis, it was assessed, it worked, and no problems were experienced. period.

 

MR16 battens just ain't gonna cut it - we're talking about side lighting a cloth, here!

Individual Codas straight hung will give an uneven wash because that's not the beam direction they're built for.

Pars from the sides similarly will give the wrong coverage.

Just accept that in certain circumstances this is just another use of a tool - non standard maybe, but effective when used considerately.

 

Oh - and by the way - 6 degrees off the horizontal was mentioned earlier, which you jumped on...

We have a hadful of Coda 1's which are SELDOM hung in a flat vertical - I'd hazard a guess that they were more often hung from overhead bars as normal, but are tilted to suit their needs, and it's almost always the case that the beam needs to be anything BUT level.... At a guess I'd say the average tilt could well be around 45 degrees.....

[musht]

Would point out that the fresnel in question had a grille, just end up with smaller projectiles, and it was the gel catching the blast that made the frame propel at speed.

 

You know what Tony, pass me the cake slice looks like about to have a slice of humble pie :-/

 

Something in the cheap lamp problem, as said just uses curly filament supports , now looking at a real lamp makers data:

 

http://www.prismaecat.lighting.philips.com...ll&loc=Null

 

Two things I notice , the crimped lamp tube, cheapies aren`t and er, um, most significantly

"Burning Position any[Any/Universal]"

It actually looks completely unlike a cheap lamp, looking at high res picture, the filament supports are pinches in the glass and the filament is sectional.

 

So it might eat the lamp holders but if you buy a decent branded lamp that does say "Burning Position any[Any/Universal]", have seen burning position + - 6 degrees on packaging before, must have been a cheapy, it`ll be fine.

 

Hey, everydays a schoolday, Cheers :-)

[Tomo]

While this bubble:

Plusline L 1000W R7s 240V 1CT/10 says horizontal +/- 4 degrees.

 

So while there are a few that can be burnt at any angle, many cannot be.

Take care please.