Tom Newman Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Hi There I usually run live sound, but the music department at school have asked me to do some recordings for students GCSE submissions (nothing too fancy). I'm experienced with using the sound equipment we have and have an M-Audio firewire interface and so therefore enough channels for recording/playback. Firstly, I just want to check whether, when doing multi-track recording, you simply take the feed out of the Direct Out of the channel? Also, I will need to record a small jazz band - No VOX; 1 Guitar; 1 Bass Guitar; 1 Piano; 1 Sax and Drums. Can you describe the best way to record a small band - I understand that there are obviously many ways (some more complex than others) but would appreciate what you think would be easiest for us. I currently have 2 SM57, 2 SM58 and 2 Behringer C-2 mic's, as well as 8 DI channels. I can get hold of some more microphones if required (I am hopefully getting a set of drum mic's). I'd appreciate any help you are able to offer. Kindest Regards Tom Newman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hinds Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Firstly, I just want to check whether, when doing multi-track recording, you simply take the feed out of the Direct Out of the channel?Yes this is a perfectly acceptable way of doing things, though you may wish to mix things like drums down to a single track. Also, I will need to record a small jazz band - No VOX; 1 Guitar; 1 Bass Guitar; 1 Piano; 1 Sax and Drums. Can you describe the best way to record a small band - I understand that there are obviously many ways (some more complex than others) but would appreciate what you think would be easiest for us. I currently have 2 SM57, 2 SM58 and 2 Behringer C-2 mic's, as well as 8 DI channels. I can get hold of some more microphones if required (I am hopefully getting a set of drum mic's)In that instance I'd DI the Bass, SM57 on the guitar (DIing will not give you the required sound). SM58 for Sax - it's not perfect but it works fine. Put the remaining SM57 on the piano, again not ideal but you can work with it. The two Behringer Mics should be set up over the drums - you aren't looking for mega kick drum sounds with Jazz and picking up the ambience of the kit is far preferable to close micing in my view. If you are really mixing for the recording alone then I would suggest taking the direct outs (for remixing later) and also mixing down live too and refining your EQ and choices as you go. Provided you have enough tracks i.e. 8 then you can record a mono mix down to listen to. Oh and start with well tuned instruments. There's nothing worse than Jazz drumming that becomes hideous because the kit is way out of tune. Hope that helps to start with. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Newman Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 Thanks for the reply - that was quick! I have up to 12 inputs on my M-Audio firewire soundcard and so should be ok for recording. Sounds (no pun intended :** laughs out loud **: ) like good ideas for uses of microphones. One further question; what do you usually use to give the artists a feed? We'll just be recording in our school hall: out of the PA speakers? I have a set of monitor speakers we could use? Or provide a headphone feed (I have a splitter)? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I'm not 100% clear if you're recording a live performance in front of an audience (or at least an examiner) or if this session is purely for recording. If the latter, I'd strongly recommend the use of headphones rather than monitor wedges. Depending on your mixer and headphone amp, you can probably set up one or two monitor mixes using the auxes on your board. For multitrack recording, the more isolation you can get between the various instruments, the more control you'll have in the mix. Moving the musicians farther apart and/or placing some form of acoustic screens (even improvised) between the players will all help, but make sure you pay attention to their needs in terms of eyelines and hearing each other. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Newman Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 I'm not 100% clear if you're recording a live performance in front of an audience (or at least an examiner) or if this session is purely for recording. The session will be purely for recording. I have one headphone splitter, so could easily put together a headphone mix so each artist could hear themselves playing. I believe the direct out on the Behringer MX9000 (our mixing desk) is post-fader? Sound right to you? Doesn't that mean the feed for recording will be dependent upon the values set on the desk? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 According to the manual, they're Post Fader and (importantly) Post EQ. Since you're only concerned with recording, this is fine, but it could have caused some concern in a live performance situation. If it was me, I'd leave the board EQ flat and do all your EQ non-destructively at the time of the mix to keep all your options open (depending, of course, on what recording and mixing software you have). One thing I noticed while in the Behringer manual: the direct outs are on unbalanced TS (mono) jacks but at a +4dBu level which is slightly non-standard and may take some tweaking. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Newman Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 According to the manual, they're Post Fader and (importantly) Post EQ.Since you're only concerned with recording, this is fine, but it could have caused some concern in a live performance situation. OK, thanks. For future reference, if we were in a recording situation, what would be the best way to establish a decent recording? One thing I noticed while in the Behringer manual: the direct outs are on unbalanced TS (mono) jacks but at a +4dBu level which is slightly non-standard and may take some tweaking. I'll have a look, but I'm sure there'll be a way to adjust the input levels on the sound card. Cheers Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatBigHippy Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Hi there! I do a lot of GCSE recordings every year and the one thing I know is that, contrary to a-level stuff, quality really isn't that important. What they need is some evidence, until they asked you they probably did this onto a tape deck!GCSE recording at our place have the following, excessively complex setup.1 minidisk recorder.1 sony minidisk stereo condensers (not there at the mo so can't quote a product name)Stick em in a room, hit record, let em play. As long as you can hear everything and it isn't clipping all over the place, it will be fine.Of course that is just us, your lot may have got you in to do something extra special and sparkly. In that case remember you may have up to 30 (or more!) kids to record. If it is a hall then can I suggest setting up the C2s as an XY pair a little back from the band/s. Then maybe, if it is totally necessary, point a sm57/8 at whoevers'(sp) piece of work it is. I quite like this type of setup for jazz anyways.. gives it a nice lo-fi feel that, if the room sounds sweet, can really work. Just as another thing, for my own information more than anythingAccording to the manual, they're Post Fader and (importantly) Post EQ. Since you're only concerned with recording, this is fine, but it could have caused some concern in a live performance situation.Can I assume that would only apply if:1: You were using the direct outs to feed the monitor desk (want a clean set of inputs to this) OR2: You were feeding them into another manned mixing desk for a live recording (same again) .Surely this wouldn't affect anything but a recording or a monitor mix, unless you use them in bigger gigs for something I don't? Anyways back to the O/P. Your kit is fine for the job but make sure you are using the correct gauge sledgehammer for those nuts!cheers,theHippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Newman Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 Hi Thanks for the information. The direct outs would be, in this case, used to feed into my 12 channel sound card in order to obtain a multi-track recording. Therefore I can perform a mixdown of the tracks later on at my own convenience. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatBigHippy Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Thanks for the information. The direct outs would be, in this case, used to feed into my 12 channel sound card in order to obtain a multi-track recording. Therefore I can perform a mixdown of the tracks later on at my own convenience.Sorry for the confusion there Tom, I was quoting Bobbsy's reply!The "At my own convenience" bit worries me a little. Just make sure that you have a specific date from the head of music for when the submission for the work is before you start. If you are doing this for your own bit of an intellectual challenge then it would be fine to chuck together a rough cut for them then work on it yourself later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadcast_techie Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I was always under the impression that GCSE Music performances were to be recorded straight to tape/cd/md, with no post production involved. The students are being assed on their ability to play, not on your ability to correct their levels. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 According to the manual, they're Post Fader and (importantly) Post EQ. Since you're only concerned with recording, this is fine, but it could have caused some concern in a live performance situation.Can I assume that would only apply if:1: You were using the direct outs to feed the monitor desk (want a clean set of inputs to this) OR2: You were feeding them into another manned mixing desk for a live recording (same again) .Surely this wouldn't affect anything but a recording or a monitor mix, unless you use them in bigger gigs for something I don't? Just for clarity, my reference to problems in a live situation referred to using the direct outs for multitrack recording as the OP here is doing. Even feeding directly to a computer sound interface as he's doing, you certainly wouldn't want level changes you do for the FOH mix reflected in what's laid down on multitrack. This is why direct outs are more typically immediately after the gain trim pot but before EQ and fader. No problem here though! However, the question about post production on GSCE performances may be a good one. I have no knowledge or experience of this sort of thing, but it would certainly be worth finding out the rules before the session! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadcast_techie Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 However, the question about post production on GSCE performances may be a good one. I have no knowledge or experience of this sort of thing, but it would certainly be worth finding out the rules before the session! Bob It's been a few years since I was recorded for GCSE Music so the rules have probably changed, but I do remember it being a very formal process. Saying that (am having a slow day), I have recorded a string quartet for GCSE which was done just using a crossed pair (Beyer 201's I believe) and recorded straight to MD. Kris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lyall Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Edexcel don't seem to mind multitrack recordings, as can be read here: http://www.edexcel.org.uk/VirtualContent/5...ion_Booklet.pdf on pages 35 and 36 Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Nice find Simon...and those pages should be "must reads" for the OP. Far from objecting to multitrack recordings mixed down later, they appear to encourage it and even provide some reasonable suggestions on technique. I wonder what their views of thing like an "Autotune" would be? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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