Compact Flash Recording

[Solstace]

Hiya!

 

I'm looking to replace our CD recorders with something a little more reliable. Both our HHB units have done 14 months (both in clean, fixed rack installs) and have all but given up. Neither will now reliably finalise a disc when it's been recorded. We've tried cleaning the lens and recording to different media, but all to no avail.

 

So - in the interests of making things more reliable for week-in/week-out recordings, I've figured that recording to CF (or some other solid-state) media is probably the way forward. Since we care about audio quality, recording to an uncompressed format is a "good thing". Since we have "joe public" users, I'd also like to be able to lock down the machine settings so that recording is a case of "turn on system, fade up mic and hit Record".

 

I can find USB-based Card readers that will help us get the audio into a Mac for editing, archiving and distribution, so computer connectivity isn't required. We already have a Marantz PMD-670 portable recorder, but I'll be needing rack-mountable versions.

 

Besides the obvious Marantz PMD-560 and PMD-570 (which both seem perhaps a little expensive given what's in the box), are there any other products anyone here uses that might also be contenders?

[TAG1960]

I Think It's early days in this recording medium, so equipment prices are still quite high. I am using the Marantz PMD 750s for the first time this week to archive 4 conference rooms. My initial reaction was great...press record once and forget about it. What I hadn't taken in to account was the file size... the first days download took 25mins! Now I try to break up each day into 4 sections, which works much better.

[Alec]

I Think It's early days in this recording medium, so equipment prices are still quite high. I am using the Marantz PMD 750s for the first time this week to archive 4 conference rooms. My initial reaction was great...press record once and forget about it. What I hadn't taken in to account was the file size... the first days download took 25mins! Now I try to break up each day into 4 sections, which works much better.

 

It's not early days at all, but I think the relatively limited market has ended up keeping prices high. Given that the Marantz units don't even contain storage, they *should* be way cheaper than they are - although high quality pre-amps & A/D converters will bump the price up.

 

I'd have thought that Behringer could have knocked out something like this for under GBP 100 and would sell bucket loads. Look at the target audience, which I'm ready to bet that it's largely churches & conference folk wanting to record speech. Optimum sound quality is probably not an issue for most of these folk and 128-256kbs MP3s would be fine for many, as would entry level pres & A/Ds. Ideally you'd give it both CF and SD slots - even better if it had a USB port to transfer stuff only USB keys.

 

Anyone listening and care to rise to the challenge?

[bigglesuk]

I've been looking into this recently as well. Really like the Marantz units though they are pricey. Annoyingly someone at out church just decided to go and buy an Edirol R-09 which IMO for FOH is not good enough. They said, I spoke to people and they recommended it, of which none of those people are FOH engineers!

 

Even these cheaper units are expensive. Your looking at £250 and that will get you a cheap plastic unit, unbalanced inputs on a 3.5mm jack with out a power supply. The M-Audio unit improves with balanced inputs and 1/4" jacks. Oh, and I don't think either of them have a line out if you want to play back, just headphone.

 

So, the Marantz PMD-560 at £360 which is high quality, lots of inputs and outputs doesn't seem too much of a premium. Though if a rack mount unit that records onto flash cards with balanced inputs and outputs for about £150-200 appeared, I would like to try it.

[Matt Riley]

Hi,

 

I personally would choose hard disk recording over CF, simply because there's less little disks to go missing. Alesis make a two track hard disk recorder, with CD burner, and if it's half as good as the HD24 then I'd go for it.

 

Alternatively, you could actually just go down the HD24 route and accept the extra functionality. It could be connected to your network and you could edit the tracks with the HD still in situ. I've found them extremely easy to use and you could use it for other stuff as well.

 

Just another perspective,

 

Matt

[Solstace]

I personally would choose hard disk recording over CF, simply because there's less little disks to go missing.

 

Fair enough perhaps - though I'd suggest the lack of moving parts ought to make the little disks more robust. Given that we're already used to a count 'em out, count 'em back in style of media management with blank cassettes and CD's, I don't see that this should really be a problem.

 

Alternatively, you could actually just go down the HD24 route and accept the extra functionality.

 

Okay, so the Alesis HD24 is a good box in some ways, but for me there's too much "Extra" functionality and not enough reliability or speed when it comes to data transfer. Yes, the idea of a recorder connected to the network so we don't even need to move media around is attractive, but part of the reason for our not doing so is to ensure that a network failure doesn't stop us making recordings immediately available after each service.

 

If I were spending that much money on a box, I'd want to spend it on two channels + recording hardware, not 24 channels + recording hardware!

[paulears]

Alternatively, you could actually just go down the HD24 route and accept the extra functionality. It could be connected to your network and you could edit the tracks with the HD still in situ. I've found them extremely easy to use and you could use it for other stuff as well.

 

Just another perspective,

 

Matt

 

I have an alesis HD24 in my rack, sitting at the side of the desk (to do 24 track recordings from the desk direct outs) - and it does that great. It's a horrible machine for cued playback of things like music tracks and effects - finding, loading and running stuff from different projects is a pain, and although you could copy files to a new project, naming and titles are not easy enough to do, as in stepping through alphabet and pressing enter for each letter. The network feature is handy, but slow without a fireport.

[mac.calder]

Another vote for HDD - disks are cheap and they are qute reliable - and capacity is so much higher for the price.

 

Ideally you'd give it both CF and SD slots - even better if it had a USB port to transfer stuff only USB keys.

 

CF is the standard for "Professional" applications - SD (normal SD) is limited to a maximum size of 2gb, it only has a 4-bit interface instead of 16 etc. As for USB - there is no standard to USB mass storage - so writing a system for mounting USB keys would be extreamly time consuming (most LX desks get arround it by running an operating system that already has the drivers, ie Windows or Linux, or by limiting the brands of key that will work) - it would be far 'easier' for the device to act as a mass storage device, so you could plug the device straight into the computer.

[jamesperrett]

It's not early days at all, but I think the relatively limited market has ended up keeping prices high. Given that the Marantz units don't even contain storage, they *should* be way cheaper than they are - although high quality pre-amps & A/D converters will bump the price up.

 

I'd have thought that Behringer could have knocked out something like this for under GBP 100 and would sell bucket loads.

 

One problem is that the original request was for a rack mount unit. iRiver made a hard disk mp3 player with line and mic inputs that gave fairly decent results but it was discontinued - presumably because not enough people wanted the mic inputs. When I was looking for something around a year ago I ended up with a Fostex MR8. If I had been looking this year I would probably have ended up with a Zoom H4. Neither of these are rack mounting but they are capable of reasonable recording quality. Many mp3 players feature line inputs but you won't find them in a rugged rack mount package. Maybe there's a market opportunity for someone to repackage one of the smaller players in a rack with balanced I/O, a decent display and big buttons.

 

Cheers

 

James.

[MarkPAman]

I am using the Marantz PMD 750s for the first time this week to archive 4 conference rooms.

 

One of these?

 

Guess thats a typo - thought it was going to be a newer model.

[bigglesuk]

If the recorder machine will be with you the whole time then yes HD may be better. However, there are times when CF is better. As people said, no moving parts so less likely to break by getting dropped (though I realise that is quite unlikely) but more importantly, highly portable.

 

Our recording unit sits in storage all week to be used at the weekend. Using CF would allow us to move the data in a pocket rather than in a rack unit.

[mac.calder]

but more importantly, highly portable.

 

Maybe the OP can clarrify, but it looks like it will be directly replacing a fixed installation - as such portability is moot, and well, hard drive droppage should be too.

[TAG1960]

I am using the Marantz PMD 750s for the first time this week to archive 4 conference rooms.

 

One of these?

 

Guess thats a typo - thought it was going to be a newer model.

 

 

4 Machines, one in main plenary and one in each breakout room. The system worked really well, end client very happy. ;)