Pa system

[bobalobus]

hey

I'm looking to buy a new system to use with 3 rock bands I work with

 

I need everything from mic's to speakers

 

it needs to be big enough for 50-500 people

 

two fold-back mix's

 

and four fold-backs

 

I have 5k to spend

 

I was looking at

3* Sm58

2* Sm57

1* SHURE PGDMK6-XLR (drum mic kit)

1*Behringer DI4000 Ultra DI Pro

The loudest 20-Way Drum (30 meters) multicore

Yamaha MG24/14 FX

3* Peavey PV1500 2 FOH 1 Monitors

Behringer x-over

2* Yamaha S112V

2* Yamaha SW118V

4* JBL JRX112M

 

plus leads and cases etc

 

Is this a good system for venues up to 500 people or do I need something bigger if so any suggestions I can go to about £5200 but that top of budget

 

many thanks

 

bob

[Rob_Beech]

My initial reaction is that you've looked at a few different systems and prices and this one comes in close. So it seems you have done a bit of homework rather than. I need a system, I've got 5k what shall I get....

 

How loud do you want a multicore to be? I have a drum that squeaks does that count?

 

Let us start at the speakers and amps, I think the system will struggle to cope with 500 people for ROCK bands. there is nothing wrong with the speakers you mention, but I do not think there is going to be the necessary spl to cover 500 for Rock.

 

 

Everything else is user preference and doesn't really make a great deal of difference to the volume and sound on its basic level. the mics will be fine, the drum mic set is very good for the money. You know where you stand with 58's and 57's which is good. The desk, you simply need something that has the features you need, with a couple of extra channels, if this has that then thats ok for you. I would also check out some of the smaller soundcraft models.

 

Remember with speakers its not the power handling its the spl.

 

 

Rob

[dunk_1984]

How loud do you want a multicore to be? I have a drum that squeaks does that count?

 

The Loudest is a company :P

[Chris Beesley]

Just one suggestion - maybe switch your two FOH amps for the Peavey PV2600, QSC RMX2450 or Behringer EP2500? This would give you more headroom on the amps and help you squeeze a little more out of your speakers.

[Adam Brinkworth]

I second what Chris is saying. You can get more out of your speakers if you use something other that the Peavy amps, which arent of amazing quality.

 

Also, I use the larger 32 channel Yamaha MG desk, and I have never had any problems with it, and the included SPX is great without the need for racks of effects equipment if you are on a tight budget. Although maybe you do not need 24 channels. Could you downgrade to a 16 channel and upgrade your mics?

[Chris Beesley]

I second what Chris is saying. You can get more out of your speakers if you use something other that the Peavy amps, which arent of amazing quality.

 

It was more from the view of allowing more headroom in the amps - as they are they will run the system fine but soon start clipping and that can lead to bust drivers.

[Ben Langfeld]

Although maybe you do not need 24 channels. Could you downgrade to a 16 channel and upgrade your mics?

 

Always always buy a desk bigger than you think you'll need, because you will need the extra!

[audio]

I sometimes work with a small PA we have at work, with a pair of Peavey amp, a PV1500 and a 2600, and I must admit that the 1500 can't cope in a 150 person venue very well, I have to keep tweaking the driverack compression to avoid clipping and am trying to get it upgraded to another of the 2600 (at the moment I've had to substitute a crown microtec 1200).

 

Definately recommend the amps you've spec'd get uprated.

[Bobbsy]

In your budget range, I'd seriously consider Behringer EP2500 amps. They're cheaper than the Peavey, at least as good in quality (if not better) and will provide you with more power.

 

As has been pointed out, there's a big jump to get to 500 person venues, and for rock you're definitely under-powered with the PV1500s.

 

I notice you just say "plus leads and cases etc." but make sure you cost in adequate amounts for these items..they can cost more than you think, especially as I'd say this is NOT an area to go for economy.

 

Bob

[Rob_Beech]

First off I agree with Bobbsy, the EP2500 is IMO a better amplifier, and it will work out cheaper too, a bonus.

 

Secondly.

The Loudest is a company

 

 

The loudest 20-Way Drum (30 meters) multicore

 

 

Ok you got me on that one. I suppose I could argue that there should have been a capital L there, but I'm an honest sort of person, I still wouldn't have twigged.

[niall]

if you're budget allows, I'd prolly get a couple extra DI's, means that if one of the bands suddenly wants to use an acoustic guitar (or a keyboard) you're covered. Adds that wee bit extra versatility to your rig.

 

I'd also agree about the comments on not goign for the smaller desk, always good to have a wee bit room to play with!

[colebrooke]

I don't know how close your list of gear brings you to your budget, but if you have spare funds, why not consider another pair of subs? Doubling the subs will add about 6dB to your low end. You normally need to double the power for an extra 3dB, which is why more speakers can be a good idea. Bare in mind the impedance load per channel will drop to 4 ohms. That drives the amps a bit harder. 6dB more bass should give you less problems at larger events.

 

I also agree with the others that a more powerful amp such as the EP2500 would be a better choice.

 

Justin

[cedd]

To be honest, I wouldn't be looking at a Behringer crossover, they are noisy compared to their S-com/DBX/Yamaha rivals.

 

I am NOT a Behringer-basher, but they have to do something to get the reputation they get. I have Behringer Di's which are all great, but I wouldn't really go looking for a mixer/amp from them. I have a behringer graphic which causes hiss the moment you plug it in (and it does it on all systems, with different cables).

 

You will need a decent Graphic EQ in there, monitors and FOH.

 

Nice choice of mic's, for what you're doing they're bombproof and one thousand and one touring bands can't be too wrong (though I wouldn't use them in a studio).

 

Thought of going active? DB technoogies, HK audio, DAP audio - they all do stuff that would fit your budget. Modular setup to cater for your different sized audiences, no amp racks, internal crossovers, no beefy supplies needed for your amp rack, no speaker-level cables running around your floor.

 

My Mackie SA1521's (500W per side)fill a school hall (200 people) with a loud rock band (with drum mic's and everything through the FOH) without even turning the "signal present" LED's yellow (they go red for clipping).

 

Remember your multicore needs to be 2 way, 20 sends, 4 returns at least. Should get a reasonably small diameter cable with that number of channels. Definately go for a drum mounted one.

 

Desks? Spirit LX7 is nice!!!!! Wish I had one! As said before, you will always want more channels. I've only got 12 and crave for 24!

 

You can never have too many (good quality) XLR cables!

[Bobbsy]

To be honest, I wouldn't be looking at a Behringer crossover, they are noisy compared to their S-com/DBX/Yamaha rivals.

 

I'm going to have to disagree strongly here. Although Behringer quality can be variable, one of the best things they produce is the DCX2496. You have to spend many times to Behringer price to better the quality. On the other hand, the dbx equivalent (the Driverack PA) has a major design fault which causes it to output an extremely high level noise if the mains is interrupted then restored. This noise is at an amplitude high enough to destroy speaker drivers, and the DRPA has done this to many a system.

 

For the money available I can't think of a better choice than the DCX.

 

Bob

[cedd]

To be honest, I wouldn't be looking at a Behringer crossover, they are noisy compared to their S-com/DBX/Yamaha rivals.

 

I'm going to have to disagree strongly here. Although Behringer quality can be variable, one of the best things they produce is the DCX2496. You have to spend many times to Behringer price to better the quality. On the other hand, the dbx equivalent (the Driverack PA) has a major design fault which causes it to output an extremely high level noise if the mains is interrupted then restored. This noise is at an amplitude high enough to destroy speaker drivers, and the DRPA has done this to many a system.

 

For the money available I can't think of a better choice than the DCX.

 

Bob

 

 

That's an interesting one about the driverack, never come across it myself (thank goodness) but there again I don't think I've had that situation.

 

My own rig is active so it isn't a massive problem as I use internal crossovers.

 

I have used the crossover built into the Behringer grahic EQ and it was painfully noisy, but I'll also admit to never having used the DCX2496.

 

 

Of course if he goes active, he won't have this problem......... spot the active fan!