Opinions on lighting system

[Willott]

Hi guys,

 

I work at the Students' Union at my University and am looking for a few opinions on upgrades to the lighting system I'd like to suggest.

 

Venue Details:

1200 Capacity Club venue, used for club nights and hosting live bands.

 

Current setup:

Dancefloor

8x Abstract VR-8

3x Club Revolutions (not entirely sure make/model)

8x MAC 250

4x Roboscan 218

2x UV Canons (1 dead at present)

 

Stage

6 banks of 6 Cans

MACs can all be focussed on stage

2x trackspots are about, in workingish state

 

Control

Masterpiece 216

 

 

The main lighting rig isnt too bad, however I do feel that for club nights we're missing one very important thing, proper strobing facilities. I reckon 1, possible 2 martin atomic 3000s would do the job perfectly, and would allow for a blinding effect to be used (which I sometimes crave at certain points in club nights) which would give a lot more interesting combinations of lighting effects. I've asked about the possibility of getting strobes, and was told that we can make do with the fast shutter on the MACs... so if anyone can assist me with some viable, good reasons to get strobes they'd be much appreciated.

 

The second thing is our control...

Over the past few months of working there (part time and not during uni hols as student ) I've managed to teach myself enough to program the desk, but it has started to annoy me. It is obviously not designed for intelligent fixtures, hence doesnt understand the reducing master intensity idea instead of just reducing all channels, there are other issues, but having been away from it for a month I've forgotten most of them. I've been looking at other students' unions and seen what they have. Those that have listings have pearls or azure shadows, or run PC based systems. I've been wanting a Pearl for a while, but would like to see your opinions as to what may be best for the situation before I begin the long haul of trying to persuade managers!

 

Cheers

 

Will

[Guest steve113]

Pearl. great desk for a union. very hands on and easy to use. atomics are very good I think you can pay as little at £400 for them? this is a good time to buy a Pearl everyone is upgrading. speak to Avolites I think you can get a second hand one for about £3500 - 4000 now.

 

I would advise you perhaps getting some bars of ACLs if you do a lot of band work and perhaps blinders. scans are always good for club nights.

[mumbles]

The main lighting rig isnt too bad, however I do feel that for club nights we're missing one very important thing, proper strobing facilities. I reckon 1, possible 2 martin atomic 3000s would do the job perfectly, and would allow for a blinding effect to be used (which I sometimes crave at certain points in club nights) which would give a lot more interesting combinations of lighting effects. I've asked about the possibility of getting strobes, and was told that we can make do with the fast shutter on the MACs... so if anyone can assist me with some viable, good reasons to get strobes they'd be much appreciated.

One thing to be wary of, is that many student unions don't allow stobes under an inclusiveness policy. I know that Bath, where I am, as well as many others, don't only say you need to let people know if you're using strobes, but that if anyone would be excluded due to medical reactions to the strobes, you are prohibited unless you can show adequate artitistic requirement for them. Something which we haven't been able to manage as yet.

 

The second thing is our control...

Over the past few months of working there (part time and not during uni hols as student ) I've managed to teach myself enough to program the desk, but it has started to annoy me. It is obviously not designed for intelligent fixtures, hence doesnt understand the reducing master intensity idea instead of just reducing all channels, there are other issues, but having been away from it for a month I've forgotten most of them. I've been looking at other students' unions and seen what they have. Those that have listings have pearls or azure shadows, or run PC based systems. I've been wanting a Pearl for a while, but would like to see your opinions as to what may be best for the situation before I begin the long haul of trying to persuade managers!

To be honest, having vaguely seen Reading's Union, I'm surprised that you only use a masterpiece. As far as suggestions go, I would want a Pearl all the way. We use our Pearl for all of our larger events, and when we have large bands come in, their engineers request a Pearl. Add to this, the ease of getting it to work to a low level for those that are learning it, and the complexity you can achieve with training. However, I only use a Pearl, a FatFrog, and a Vista, of which the Pearl is the best for busking.

 

Hope you follow this, and that it helps.

[niclights]

Absolutely, again (honestly, I'm not employed by Avo!), Pearl all the way. I use in both our venues. Copes with all requirements & is familiar to LD's. If budget allows then I highly recommend getting the Expert as will be a much better investment for the future. I have been testing the desk now for a few months & can't say enough good things about it. The future is bright!

As an example I can confidently busk, both bands & clubs: Pars, ACL's, DWE's, specials, 14x mover (3 types), 52x LED (3 types), 8x strobe (2 types).

 

Regarding strobes, your entertainments license does need to allow use of strobes, but is ok in our student union venues. You should be responsible in your use, however

 

If Atomics are beyond budget then you could use the cheaper Chinese units. I purchased some of the Stairville's to compliment my Atomics. Very cheap @ approx £60inc. VAT each. Half the power @ 1500W, no duration options and generally control isn't perfect but they certainly do the job. I would not consider using them on stage for bands but for clubs they will work very well for you.

[dosxuk]

Another students union, another Pearl (2000 - looking to upgrade next year & we all want an expert) & 1 Atomic + a pile of ancient Pulsar Jumbostrobes.

 

We've never had a problem with strobes (especially in our new venue, as the large central bar is classed as a strobe free area as it has no lighting rig at all), but we did have to argue for UV after a customer apparently got burnt by a UV cannon. We now have a sign on the door stating we use strobes, smoke & UV effects.

[Willott]

Cheers guys,

 

James, have already seen your venue spec, it's absolutely great! I've also managed to find a couple of others as "ammo" to throw at management. If I can find venue pics I'll post, or I'll take some at work on monday

[waster]

check out the current issue of night magazine for more union veunue specs

[Modge]

BUGS have 4 Atomics, no pearl though.

They have 2 venues large enough to use them in year round, plus aside whether permitting outside as well. On top of the that they do a certain about of touring work (inc. the NIA in some rare cases) so they certainly get value for money from them. The biggest restraints with using them is that a)They are *#~&ing bright - small rooms are a no no b)They need lots of power.

Desks wise they do for big events hire pearls (a former crew member now works for avo). For install rigs we have martin controllers, aside from that they have:

A bullfrog - used for pretty much all things threate of any size and gigs that have a decent rig put up in the 700 person venue.

A celco navigator - used to be the main intel desk, now doesn't get much use

An NJD merlin - useful to hold doors open with. and when every thing else is in use. or you need a desk you can carry in one hand.

Martin Light jockey (single universe dongle) - Now our main intel desk - offtern run with the bullfrog doing generic

A Sirus 48 - that used to be the main threate desk pre bull frog, not much used etheir.

A very old zero88 desk was an awsum (custom) paint job that I've never used but always wanted to - it's analogue only and some how the gig for it never pops up.

A martin 3032 system, which for using only with martin protocol lights is actually quite ok.

 

Any more of a spec than that I can do you by PM, but thats quite a list of desks. I should mention I don't really work there any more, just stayed living in brum and seem still to turn up now and then.

[Willott]

Managed to find a not amazing picture of the venue, will see if I can get some better ones today, this will hopefully give a rough idea of size and lighting layout.

 

http://www.1287am.com/test/360ring.jpg

Our ring of MACs and 218s, from stage side going clockwise numbered as MAC1, 218.1, MAC2, MAC3, 218.2, MAC4, etc.. Oh, and our mirror ball...

You can just about see the balcony on the left starting to curve round, this curves to just about over the head of the peerson taking the photo and has the vr-8s and club revs mounted on it.

 

Fairly decent sized room, will take some pics from the top of scaffy tower today as well

 

Will

[Adam Brinkworth]

Depending upon budget, why not look at the Vista desks. The S3 is very flexable, and is used along side a PC that you already have, or a laptop.

 

It is easy to pick up how to program the inteligent fixtures, and many effects can be programed for quick recall.

[ianl]

I think it depends on the amount of band nights compared to DJ nights, from memory your club was very DJ orientated but its been a few years since I was there.

 

from a managment / acountant point of view who are there to see the club make a profit rather than a student crew point of view who want experience of using the kit:

 

the dance floor light rig dosent need reprograming every show, it can be programed once and locked out into user mode

letting students reprogram the desk reguarly risks one night having no show

the masterpiece does this and you already have one

the masterpiece is more resistant to drinks being spilt on it

student crew have a habit of breaking pearl faders at an alarming rate, no one has broken our masterpiece in 10 years

 

that said, the masterpiece is old technology that has had many upgrades but I'm sure there is far better out there now; I'm just not convinced the pearl is the right tool for the job

 

If however you are doing a fair number of bands then pearl all the way if you have the money as propeer band lighting on a masterpiece is next to imposible

[P. Funk]

Hey,

 

I played a gig at your SU last year sometime (not sure if you were working, but it was a big band & choir doing some duke ellington with a crazy tap dancer). All seemed cool there but one thing that could have been improved on stage would be to get better backlight. The size/height of the stage kind of means you cant get any throw from the parcans. Just a suggestion, but some LED battens or something onstage would be useful for live acts, and also for eye candy during club nights. Having said that, they're bloody expensive for an SU.

 

Also, you might want to think about rigging your mac250s in different places? The fan of 8 over the dancefloor looks cool (its not a fan of 8 in the pic below, but im sure it was when I came...), but you might be able to get some better effects if you rigged four of them around the outside of the dancefloor.

 

Just a couple of suggestions...

[mumbles]

Depending upon budget, why not look at the Vista desks. The S3 is very flexable, and is used along side a PC that you already have, or a laptop.

 

It is easy to pick up how to program the inteligent fixtures, and many effects can be programed for quick recall.

I will agree that the Vista is a piece of p*ss to program, but having had experience of both the Vista and a Pearl, I would definitely prefer to have a Pearl for something like a students union.

 

For a venue where presumably you're are teaching people, a pearl is a much greater desk to learn the basics of programming and opping. While I would love a Vista for my union, I fear that an S3 would be a mistake, as the asscoiated laptop would stay very clean (either in terms of beer, or in terms of having programs installed and the internet surfed) for long.

 

Also, I would agree with ianl, that it is worth keeping your masterpiece, so that it can be left programmed for the clubby environment, so as to keep the pearl safe and out of harms way for other than the bands, when it is better.

[lonfire]

hi guys,

I used to goto reading uni.. they started the refurb of the main room just when I left! bummer...

 

just a quick thought.. what about getting a few 1500w strobes rather than one or two 3000w strobes.. surely it will give you more flexability in terms of chases or all at once..etc and they are dirt cheap 2... I'm no expert though, but just a thought..

 

(ah.. just noticed somebody else has already suggested this)..

 

Will, if the union wants any firework shows for any events PM me I'll do you a deal.. ;-) we are based in Sonning just down the road..

 

rgds

chris

[Willott]

I think management are a little wary of pyros vs students, we had laser show on nov 6th just gone (tho I think pyros would've been better).

 

As Ianl said earlier, it is mainly DJ based club nights, and I do see the management pov, however, we are having to light bands an increasing amount (I spent the whole of a carl kennedy gig tapping buttons because they asked for the lights to keep moving 5 mins before opening, and I found a distinct lack of Can chases), and the inflexibility that tapping buttons gives you for club nights is annoying as well.

 

And the whole user locked out thing isnt true, due to having to go in and fix things, most of us now know the admin code, and as for saving the preprogrammed stuff... would be great if the card still worked, had that issue last year.