Can someone recommend reliable amps and speakers...?

[fbnts]

Hey,

 

I work at a local independent nightclub usually doing the lighting however the company we used for the sound is no longer around and earlier tonight the bass amp decided to pack up with a cloud of smoke when switched on.

 

We then raced to get alternates setup and opened an hour late.

 

I have been asked if I can sort out the system and only knowing the basics do not know which brands would be the best to use.

 

We currently have a 1200watt amp driving two 600 watt 8ohm bass bins. Then we have another 1200 watt amp driving 4 top speakers per channel.

 

Can someone give their recommendation on whats best to replace these with a new setup including new bass bins and tops as well. We would also be looking to upgrade the capacity so rather than use the above system at full load, get a bigger system and run it at half load with the potential to turn up on occasions.

 

Hope this all makes sense!

 

Tom

[David A]

My suggestion would be to get in a couple of local companies to compete with actual systems before you decide, buy with your ears not on what is trendy and use recommendations cautiously as sound people tend to be biased to one brand or another.

[Brettmasters]

HI,

 

Recommendations are normally linked to budgets, Lab Gruppen, crest, Camco or Mc2 install ranges or FFA if you have the budget or come down with Qsc & Crown. For very Budget conscious go with the crown budget series or even the Behringer (yes I know I know but they work and if they do fail (which I've not heard of yet) bin it and get another!!)

 

Why did it fail? Is the amp room to hot and they are suffering? are the amps dirty and the air isn't able to cool properly around the amp?

 

Can it be fixed? maybe cheaper to fix it.

 

Where abouts are you, maybe we could suggest a repair centre for you.

 

 

2p

[Chris Hinds]

I'll echo the call to bring another company in to do the evaluation because from a web forum we can't see how big your room is, whether it has any corners that could affect sound, how even the current system is for coverage, what the RT60 is etc etc etc. It might seem like an expensive option, but it will be a lot cheaper than DIY then having to replace DIY again in a couple of years time. I wouldn't expect it to be a 'cheap' thing to do and do well though, certainly a 4 figure sum, but more likely low 5 figures.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[fbnts]

Yeah thanks for your replies I am hoping the owner is going to get another company in, I would rather just stick to the things I know well.

The club is in Matlock, Derbyshire.

 

Not sure why it failed yet, its still in the rack but will get it out to see what actually went in it.

 

The amp room is not particularly warm and relatively dust free as its well away from the main club environment. It was right at the beginning of the night, someone went down to flick all the breakers on and when he flicked the last one on the amp just started smoking enough to trigger the detector in there and then automatically calling the fire fighters.

When I got there, there was a strong smell all down in the amp room and ajoining rooms so something went with a bang.

It is quite old so we don't really feel comfortable having it repaired, I think its more wise to get all new gear as it almost closed the club last night.

 

Will advise to owner to get a independent specialist in to get a suitable system in.

 

Tom

[RobertKendall]

I recomend the QSC RMXs, they are cheap and seem to be a good amp

to avoid destroing another amp, get somthing that is more powerful that your speakers

 

 

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/rmx/rmx4050.htm

 

 

 

Robert Kendall

07963659678

[JimWebber]

... the amp just started smoking enough to trigger the detector in there and then automatically calling the fire fighters.

When I got there, there was a strong smell all down in the amp room and ajoining rooms so something went with a bang. ...

 

Although certainly not a noise boy, your problem sounds exactly like an electrolytic capacitor going "Pop". There are usually some very large ones in amplifiers, and when they go, there is smoke and smell everywhere!

 

They do sometimes go at random, and your amp may need nothing more then a new cap fitted. Even if you do replace everything, it never hurts to hold a spare amp!

 

Jim

[Ynot]

to avoid destroing another amp, get somthing that is more powerful that your speakers

Erm.... NO!

The speakers should always be of an equal or higher rating than the max output of the amp!! (Not forgetting of course to make sure you're talking the 'right' power handling capacity!).

You try driving a high power amp in to lower rated bins and you'll likely end up actually risking BOTH sets of equipment!!!

[Pete]

The speakers should always be of an equal or higher rating than the max output of the amp!! (Not forgetting of course to make sure you're talking the 'right' power handling capacity!).

You try driving a high power amp in to lower rated bins and you'll likely end up actually risking BOTH sets of equipment!!!

 

I have to disagree with you here Ynot,I was always told to go for an amp more powerful than the box your driving.

I don't want to get involved in the square wave argument,but I've seen a pair of T12s lose their HF drivers off an underpowered amp,and never lost a box from making sure there was "enough" amp behind it.

 

Just my 2p

 

 

Pete

 

Minor edit for grammar

[Big Dave]

Erm.... NO!

 

Erm YES!

 

As a general rule, your amps should be equal or greater in power than the power of your speakers. Speakers don't like seeing a square wave input which is what will happen if your amps are underpowered and driven to clipping.

 

Your best bet is always to use bigger amps then introduce some form of system management that will limit the signal going to your amps thus protecting your speakers.

 

Beaten to it, must type faster.

[p.k.roberts]

An interesting one this and a question that I think is often shrouded in misunderstanding and urban myth. If an amp is capable of delivering a larger amount of power than the rating of the speakers then there is the possibility of blowing the drivers, BUT, given that most 'musical' signals are likely to have a lower average level than, say, a sine wave, then you will probably get away with it. Of course if the material is very compressed or of a more 'tone-like' quality (e.g. a synth output) then you might not be so lucky.

If an amp (whatever the power) is driven into clipping then it is, in effect, producing short bursts of DC which are likely to blow HF drivers quite quickly.

So the real problem is that lower powered amps are more likely to driven into distortion because 'over enthusiastic' operators feel that the system is not loud enough and statistically this situation is more likely to cause damage to drivers than a 'over powered' amp not driven onto distortion.

The real solution is to have a properly specified system capable of producing the required levels, lined up and operated properly.

[StevieR]

To be a little more specific on the amp/speaker power debate...

 

Loudspeakers have two power ratings - RMS (read average) and Peak. It is generally accepted that selecting an amplifier whose power rating sits between these values gives optimum performance without risking damage to the loudspeaker. The exact value is often difficult to calculate and it is worth asking the manufacturer as to their recommendation.

 

Steve

[Rob_Beech]

I agree with the majority here, an amplifier will have more headroom. Less chance of clipping and therefore safer and healthier for drivers (particularly HF).

 

there was more to this post. but I've re-read the OP and realised that although I knew it wasn't 100% relevant., it is infact completely useless to them.

[jamesperrett]

There seem to be all kinds of myths and half truths surrounding amplifier and speaker power matching. To get at the real truth would take a post longer than I have time for at the moment but you have to look at both heating effects and mechanical excursion in order to gain a real understanding of the problem.

 

To arrive at a suitable rating for the power amp you also have to assess things like the competence of the people running the system - if you overrate the amp will the users just run them into clipping anyway and destroy the speakers?

 

If you want to be completely safe then you should never specify an amp with peak power larger than the continuous power handling of the smallest driver in the system.

 

Cheers

 

James.

[Ynot]

There seem to be all kinds of myths and half truths surrounding amplifier and speaker power matching. To get at the real truth would take a post longer than I have time for at the moment but you have to look at both heating effects and mechanical excursion in order to gain a real understanding of the problem.

 

If you want to be completely safe then you should never specify an amp with peak power larger than the continuous power handling of the smallest driver in the system.

Which is basically what I said earlier, with the caveat I also included about using the correct measurement of power (ie peak/rms etc).

To arrive at a suitable rating for the power amp you also have to assess things like the competence of the people running the system - if you overrate the amp will the users just run them into clipping anyway and destroy the speakers?

Which is a BIG reason for using properly spec'd amps/spkrs!

 

Taking this quote

to avoid destroing another amp, get somthing that is more powerful that your speakers

at it's basest level, it leaves the more inexperienced wannabe sound designer open to specify, perhaps, a 1000W stereo amp to drive a pair of 100w speakers! clearly something that would be potentially destructive to both components!!

That's also assuming that the matching also includes matching for the correct impedance vs power rating.

 

I don't claim to be a sound expert - far from it, but there are some pretty basic considerations to be taken into account here. Simply saying 'use a bigger amp than your speakers is blatantly wrong in it's simplest terms, and possibly risky in others!!