Visual output from a Desk

[ben.suffolk]

I notice most, if not all but the very cheapest, lighting desks have outputs for a computer monitor to be connected to display, among other things, a visual output of the desk.

 

Not having a great deal of experience with high end desks I don't know how a lot of them display this information, or what information they display. However I know you guys between you will, and will have your opinions on the benefits of said displays.

 

I'm keen to make sure the application I am developing has a useful display of the output. So onto some general questions I'd love your feedback on:-

 

1. How much do you use this output display when your using a desk, is it during plotting, or show time when you use it most?

 

2. What do you want to see, just channels levels, or cue levels, or memory levels, or chase levels, all of it? What the output will look like after the next cue has run? I'm sure there are loads of things that could be displayed, but what's actually useful?

 

3. On smaller desks you can see all 48 channels no problem, what about when you have several full universes? Then what do you show? A smaller bank that the user can change, maybe dynamic based on latest changed channels?

 

4. What about when you have multiple attributes on a channel (colour, gobo etc) is it only the intensity your interested in?

 

5. How do you like to see the information, a grid of numbers, a bar graph. Is it better to have less but bigger (i.e. quickly see what's happening). How about a different colour to show a recently changed channel, is that handy?

 

Clearly there are a lot of questions asking for a lot of information so I'll stop asking and hope the thread will develop to give all the relevant information and more :(

 

Ben

[mumbles]

1. How much do you use this output display when your using a desk, is it during plotting, or show time when you use it most?

Use it during both but in different ways.

 

2. What do you want to see, just channels levels, or cue levels, or memory levels, or chase levels, all of it? What the output will look like after the next cue has run? I'm sure there are loads of things that could be displayed, but what's actually useful?

During plotting have channel levels, then during a show has the cue stack shown, or when busking switch between subs and channel data.

 

3. On smaller desks you can see all 48 channels no problem, what about when you have several full universes? Then what do you show? A smaller bank that the user can change, maybe dynamic based on latest changed channels?

Generally would have the intell data showing as I can be pretty sure of what the generics will be doing but don't seem to trust the the intells enough not to keep an eye on them. However would probably prefer a dynamic based system in order to keep an eye on everything.

 

4. What about when you have multiple attributes on a channel (colour, gobo etc) is it only the intensity your interested in?

I quite like seeing a palette number for gobo and colour etc, but for position, I dont see much point unless it is a palette, as a number from 0 to 255 doesn't really help much. These I normally like to only display as they are used, but like having all intensities shown whatever they are at.

 

5. How do you like to see the information, a grid of numbers, a bar graph. Is it better to have less but bigger (i.e. quickly see what's happening). How about a different colour to show a recently changed channel, is that handy?

Grid of numbers, in about 14-18 font size, but generally prefer to have more smaller, to a point. Also, having different colours to show what has changed from the last cue, is changing to the next and currently changing as well as parked etc is very useful, just to make it easier to spot at a glance.

[JimWebber]

1. - I usually use it for running the show, It's nice to be certain that when I press the "GO" button, I will get that crossfade to the next state, not a plunge into a blackout...

 

2. - As mentioned above, I like to see the channel levels of the next cue, ie what the output will look like after the next cue has run.

 

3. - I've never been in a position to see more then 100 channels, which do fit quite nicely onto one screen.

 

4. - As Mumbles says above, I'm only interested in seeing colour and gobo information if it actually means something to me, a number 0 - 255 means nothing.

 

5. - I'm with Mumbles again on this one, a grid of numbers does me fine!

 

In short, maybe I'm a bit paranoid of technology, but I use the VDU as a preview function, just to make sure that when I press the GO button, the desk is going to do what I expect it to!

 

HTH

 

Jim

[pete LD]

when plotting channel levels and mover attribs, when running cue stack and channel levels. I like strands different colours for levels going up or down in the next and last cue, and I like there chans in show with auto format so you just get the channels your working on!

I'm not a fan of the smaller desks where its just a long list of numbers for everything including mover colours/gobos, as mumbles said it ain't much use if it says 034 instead of "blue"

3. On smaller desks you can see all 48 channels no problem, what about when you have several full universes? Then what do you show? A smaller bank that the user can change, maybe dynamic based on latest changed channels?

On larger desks you get more monitors, ive used a strand with 4 but I'm sure some of the big rock desks have that or more. then you get channels 1 > 250 on monitor 1 251>500 etc..

hope that makes sense!

pete :(

[GridGirl]

I'm pretty reliant on a screen when I operate - I'm a Strand girl and so I'm very used to (and like) their screen setups. During plotting, channel information and cue times are the most vital thing; if I'm using movers I'm usually most concerned with intensity and sometimes position. I'm not usually too bothered about chase levels and things - once I've programmed an effect I usually don't look at the levels of it. What I like to see is channels changing as a cue is executed - as Pete LD said, the Strand colour system is pretty good and easy to understand at a glance - you can see what's gone up, what's gone down and what has stayed the same very quickly. The other thing I use a lot is the PREVIEW screen, being able to see where things are going to go to is a very valuable asset.

[Sinorm]

I'm a little biased in this matter, as I have my own lighting application, but I'll provide some input anyways. The most aggravating thing for me is how most people try and design a computer interface that looks like a real console. You end up wasting the entire screen space to fit 48 or so faders that you have to clumsily drag around with a mouse. This is a program running on a computer, so write it like one instead of just creating a "virtual console!" This is why I just display numbers instead of having large faders, and all input to my program is done by typing channel numbers and values instead of dragging sliders around.

 

While I am far less experienced than most people here, it would seem that having two styles of displays would be a good idea. One for programming the board, and another for running a show. When you are running a show, you normally don't really need to see the channel values at all, just a list of your cues, chases, etc. Of course, you need to be able to switch seamlessly between these two views for those of us who never trust that everything is running correctly :)

 

One idea I'll add on (and it can potentially fit in with my previous one) is dual monitor support. Dual monitors are not uncommon these days, and definitely make sense for larger shows. Depending on the size of the show, you could either have 1 monitor with all of your cues, effects, etc, and another with channel values, or even spread the status/channel values across both monitors if necessary.

[mac.calder]

This is a bit of a difficult one. It all depends on the hardware features of the device, and what I am doing at the time.

 

I am fairly reliant on the VDU on any desk that is not a simple 2 scene preset or basic scene master type board.

 

As far as layout

 

If I have 1 fader for each device, I am not fussed if I do not have intensity displayed on the monitor. If I have more devices than faders, then I like to see intensities during cue changes, and whilst programing a cue.

 

When I am dealing with a mover/group of movers, I like to have a screen/section of the screen dedicated to that mover, and I like meaningful information. Preferably that is the Pan and Tilt given in degrees (ie PAN=-80 not PAN=14200), colours named, if in a colour wheel etc.

 

During cue stacks, I like to have a list down the side of 10 or so cues (4 previous, current, 5 future), same during chases.

 

Viewing large numbers of levels - I like the grid.

 

In response to number 4 - I would rephrase that, as it is rare to have multiple attributes on a channel - you have multiple attributes in a FIXTURE, however Channel usually refers to a raw DMX address. It is a nit pick, but it is an important one. As I mentioned, I like to see intensity of all fixtures, and preferably a highlight of any fixtures have attribute changes.

 

Colour is good.

[strand600X]

Im a Strand man through and through.

 

I like to see anything and everything when I need it. I know thats not much help but it's what I am used to. Seeing a clear bright and colourful screen is always nice. I use the screens all the time but find more than two tiresome. Autochannel page is always a good idea so I don't need more than two.

 

Baz

:)

[dbuckley]

... The most aggravating thing for me is how most people try and design a computer interface that looks like a real console.

 

*nods*

 

But that view wont get much sympathy round here, rather too much traditionalism...

[Bryson]

1. How much do you use this output display when your using a desk, is it during plotting, or show time when you use it most?

 

Both. For different things.

 

2. What do you want to see, just channels levels, or cue levels, or memory levels, or chase levels, all of it? What the output will look like after the next cue has run? I'm sure there are loads of things that could be displayed, but what's actually useful?

 

Channel levels mainly, but also cue playback status.

3. On smaller desks you can see all 48 channels no problem, what about when you have several full universes? Then what do you show? A smaller bank that the user can change, maybe dynamic based on latest changed channels?

 

A page button cures all this, as does multiple screens. Some people love the auto "channels in show" option once the show is plotted entirely.

 

4. What about when you have multiple attributes on a channel (colour, gobo etc) is it only the intensity your interested in?

 

All of them. Or at least the option to see more detail really easily.

 

 

5. How do you like to see the information, a grid of numbers, a bar graph. Is it better to have less but bigger (i.e. quickly see what's happening). How about a different colour to show a recently changed channel, is that handy?

Grid of numbers is best. Scalable is ideal, but pretty small is ok. Different colours that indicate what the channel just did/is doing/is going to do next are essential.

[ben.suffolk]

This is a program running on a computer, so write it like one instead of just creating a "virtual console!"

 

Totally agree with you on that one.

 

And in fact as such there will be different windows for different things, like the cue stack will display past and future cues etc, in the cue window. But I do want to explore what else needs to be displayed, especially around a channels output (mac I was thinking desk channels - one fixture one channel as opposed to DMX channels one fixture many DMX channels).

 

Dual screen is again really easy on a computer program, as you can just move a window onto to the second monitor, in fact I always use an external monitor with my laptop to provide more screen estate. I use the external one for documentation / web and the laptop screen for coding etc. So it was a natural assumption for me that I would have output displayed on one screen and cue stacks, and controls on another.

 

Quite a few of you have said how good the strand system is with its colours, would one of you mind explaining it in a bit more detail, i.e. what's displayed and what the colour coding represents.

 

I'm interested that everybody seems to favor a grid of numbers. I thought a set of bar graphs might have been nice - much easier to absorb the information than having to read numbers. A bit like the difference between an analogue clock and a digital. Instant as opposed to a small amount of cognitive processing time. Is this because you can get more on screen, or because its what you have always had? or some other reason that I have missed?

 

Ben

[dbuckley]

I'm interested that everybody seems to favor a grid of numbers. I thought a set of bar graphs might have been nice

I have the option of numbers (0-255), numbers (0-100), a little box with greyscale intensity, and little box with bar width, and every one of thise display formats is useful in some circumstance.

[GridGirl]

Quite a few of you have said how good the strand system is with its colours, would one of you mind explaining it in a bit more detail, i.e. what's displayed and what the colour coding represents.

 

Under the channel number (white, unless it's a mover in which case it's light grey) the intensity appears in magenta if the value has increased in the current cue, light blue if it's remained the same, and green if it's gone down (I think those colours are correct, no doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong!). If the channel is under submaster control then the intensity is in yellow; if it's under the control of the rigger's remote then it's pink and if it's being controlled by an effect then it appears white in a grey box. If you've brought the channel up by going 1 @ 50 then intensity is in red.

[JimWebber]

Thank you! I always did wonder what all the colours meant!

 

Jim

[GridGirl]

if it's under the control of the rigger's remote then it's pink

 

Going to correct myself here! If the channel is being driven by the rigger's remote intensity will be white in a pink box....