Can you mix sound without affecting your hearing?

[Just Some Bloke]

As Brian has mentioned in another thread, this report by the HSE has been published, looking into noise exposure by live sound engineers, both FOH and on-stage.

 

It puts people who work at live events into 3 categories: Category A workers don't need to be in the arena and should be moved somewhere quieter. This would include catering etc.

Category B workers would need to be in the arena/on stage at times and should wear hearing protection at those times. This would include St. John's, Venue Manager etc. as well as, interestingly, the bass player, drummer and guitarist.

Category C workers have to be in the hall all the time and should work through a flow chart which suggests solutions like minimising exposure to under 15 minutes, perhaps by job rotation. This would include backline technicians, security etc.

 

It then goes on to make the following recomendations:

 

 

Without exception, all areas front of house and at the side of the stage should be designated as

hearing protection zones and marked accordingly and all non-essential staff excluded.

All persons working within the hearing protection zone should wear suitable hearing protection

at all times. It is acknowledged within the report that this has major implications for sound

engineers.

Moulded ear plugs with a flat response could provide a solution to the problems associated with

sound engineers and monitor engineers being unable to work successfully whilst wearing

hearing protection. It is recommended that this be an area of further investigation in the near

future and trials should be implemented as a matter of urgency.

Access to FOH should be restricted and all non-essential personnel should be excluded.

Concessions, first aid, merchandising stalls etc should be removed from areas of high noise

where practicable.

Urgent steps should be taken to educate workers in the live entertainment industry to the

likelihood of hearing damage and noise induced hearing loss. Workers’ perception of noise as a

health issue is low. It is apparent that many workers underestimate their noise exposure, are not

aware of the dangers and do not receive any guidance on these matters.

It is recommended that the information contained in this report is used as an initial assessment

of personnel to see whether they are likely to be exposed to high noise levels and whether they

need to be. This does not however preclude the need for a proper risk assessment to be

performed.

Although it is outside of the scope of this report it is recommended that flat response hearing

protection (ER20’s) are offered for sale at events for purchase by the audience. In addition, it is

recommended that a health warning is printed on every ticket and buckets of free foam ear plugs

are made available at the entrances for use by the public. Hearing protection zone notices should

also be prominently displayed.

Speakers should be positioned to minimise exposure to personnel in the pit area. Where possible

they should be situated above head height.

The use of in ear monitors for musicians and the reduction in use of stage monitors should be

encouraged. This is likely to benefit the external environmental noise climate of the venue as

well.

It is recommended that consideration be given to the imposition of a maximum concert level

(possibly in the form of a LAeq, 15min measured at FOH). Further research needs to be conducted

on this.

 

Lots to discuss methinks! :(

[Simon Lewis]

To answer your question, if a) your normal exposure is above 85dB(A)Leq, and b) you do this for a living (i.e. you are regularly exposed to high SPLs) then "no".

 

Just how we go about this is the hard part.

 

What is harder to fathom is why (apart from procrastination) was the Ents Industry given two years of exemption? Exposure values for sound staff and people working in venues have been known about for years...

[bigglesuk]

I really wished that I had my ear plugs on Saturday night, had to nip onto stage to try and fix something right by the drummer! I hate cymbals.....

 

One solution for engineers is to use plugs for periods of the gig. So, sound check the band without them then once the gig starts and everything is ok, put them in. I've done this a couple of times in small venues, then took them out a couple of times during the gig (for a few minutes) just to double check things were fine.

 

Thing is, you just don't get the same feeling when mixing with plugs in! Well, I didn't anyway.

 

Adam

[wako_jacko]

surely using eardefending headsets\phoenes would enable you to listen to the whole gig, but at a level that does not damage your hearing so that you can ensure your hearing isn't damaged, and the gig sounds good. or am I just rambling?

[jayselway]

TBH when I'm mixing a gig, I don't use earplugs. It's not because I don't get a feel for the gig, it's cause I can't hear everything as I can without them. They make everything quieter = yes. However, if someone could invent some that make everything quieter apart from the onset of feedback then I might go for them. Being able to catch that hint of feedback in the mix can be really useful for getting rid before it gets bigger!

 

Oh, and point 2, I get really nauseaus when I have earplugs in, or wear ear defenders. One gig got so bad that I nearly vimto'd! :(

[Boggy]

During my day job I have spent a lot of time in factories and have learnt a few things about earplugs.

 

1). If you want to find out how much damage a loud gig does to your hearing, simply put in one ear plug before the show (yes it will sound a bit weird at first). At the end of the show when you remove the earplug you will have amazingly clear hearing in the ear which had the ear plug. The exposed ear will sound fuzzy and strange. Make sure things return to a reasonable form of normal before attempting to drive etc. Usual disclaimer - I am not medically qualified - this could make some people sick.

 

2). If you spend some time in a loud environment and then put in earplugs you will probably not hear very well. If you put the earplugs in before being exposed to the loud environment you will hear much better with the earplugs in.

 

3). I bought a box of earplugs (200 earplugs) for about $40 AUS a few years ago on the basis that I would not need to ever buy them again. They have been a great investment and I have used then at work, while building scenery and at loud gigs. While your employer should provide them, if they do not I always have a few sets in my bag and a few more in the car.

 

P.S. I am keen to hear if anyone tries item 1) above and whether any great effect was noticed.

[dbuckley]

First comment has to be that the report author obviously spent time and trouble understanding how rock shows work, with good use of appropriate terminology, and an positive attitute. Its a damned fine read.

 

My next comment would be about musicians. The author was able to instrument one band, and the results of that are in Appendix F graph series 8. The guitarist is sitting in about 113dBA for the whole show. Ouch. The drummers LCPeak was even higher, perhaps not unexpectedly.

 

Now back to the OP's question. Over the last year I've formed the opinion that quiet things I do have a much better mix than loud things, the high 90s seems to be enough to "compress" my ears these days, and when they feel "compressed" I dont hear so well, detail passes me by. So next year I'm going to get a decent set of 'plugs, with the so-called flat filters, and see if getting the ear SPL down makes me happier, and indeed improves or wrecks my mix capability. I expect there will be a need for a period of adjustment...

[Nicktaylor]

while building scenery

Being facicious here! So protect you hearing but don't hear the warning shout of heads on stage etc etc! :(

[Just Some Bloke]

while building scenery

 

Being facicious here! So protect you hearing but don't hear the warning shout of heads on stage etc etc! :(

Hopefully we'd all be building scenery in the workshop and just assembling it on stage. :P

[ianl]

One solution for engineers is to use plugs for periods of the gig. So, sound check the band without them then once the gig starts and everything is ok, put them in. I've done this a couple of times in small venues, then took them out a couple of times during the gig (for a few minutes) just to double check things were fine.

 

Adam

 

 

removing earplugs even for short periods whilst still exposed to high sound levels is very bad for your hearing and can even be worse than not wearing them at all

[mark_s]

removing earplugs even for short periods whilst still exposed to high sound levels is very bad for your hearing and can even be worse than not wearing them at all

 

Would you care to explain the reasoning behind that?

[bigglesuk]

removing earplugs even for short periods whilst still exposed to high sound levels is very bad for your hearing and can even be worse than not wearing them at all

 

Would you care to explain the reasoning behind that?

 

I was just wondering about that as well.

[Tomo]

Think of the gain structure:

 

The earplugs act as an -X dB pad, then your ear passes the signal through a Brain Controlled Amplifier (BCA) and compressor system, enters the Audio-to-Neuron Converter (ANC) and thence up the stereo mix bus into the brain, where a final level of amplification is done and the signal is measured.

 

The BCA and compressor have a fairly slow response time.

- How long would it take you to reduce gain if someone unexpectedly removed the pad? At least a couple of seconds I expect, possibly longer.

 

During that adjustment time, the signal is clipping and damage is likely to be occurring to the ANC.

 

Simple! :)

[mark_s]

You learn something new every day :)

I suppose it's similar to getting up in the middle of the night to go to the toilet, and switching the bathroom light on.

[dbuckley]

... then your ear passes the signal through a Brain Controlled Amplifier (BCA) and compressor system, enters the Audio-to-Neuron Converter (ANC) and thence up the stereo mix bus into the brain, where a final level of amplification is done and the signal is measured.

That must be the explanation of 2006 :) Wonderful. I don't know (or, frankly, care) if it's right or wrong...