Futurelight?

[Joe Bleasdale]

Is this a one-off show/concert etc you are doing?

[KosmasKosmakos]

Is this a one-off show/concert etc you are doing?

 

I am starting a lighting and sound rental company. We are gonna have this music festival as a copyright.

[steve h]

is it a one off event?

 

although im guessing the answer will be no.....

 

 

2. Will they last for a year? (thats how long its gonna take me to take my money back by renting - I know that)

 

edit: must type quicker!

[KosmasKosmakos]

is it a one off event?

 

although im guessing the answer will be no.....

 

 

2. Will they last for a year? (thats how long its gonna take me to take my money back by renting - I know that)

 

edit: must type quicker!

 

Its a one day event but its gonna be copyrighted so we can run it for many years...

 

I ment that even if they are not good quality I would use them only for some months so I could take their money back. I will take the most in this event..

[niclights]

I have no reason to think a Futurelight won't last a year or more unless it is seriously abused. But probably not the best investment for longer term.

 

Will they fail before or during show? That's impossible to say for any light, especially automated ones. I would have no more confidence in 26 new Varilites working than 26 Futurelights. But I would know that with something like VL that it would get fixed somehow and the show would happen. And that's the point about purchasing something with backup/parts availability. Moving lights do and will go wrong. Often you pay for ease of repair as much as anything else.

 

I completely understand the tax and budget problem, but I do think you could get some Robe 700AT units for the same price, especially in that quantity. If I had the choice between the two I would definitely choose the Robe even though it was 700W. I doubt the difference would be noticeable.

[KosmasKosmakos]

I have no reason to think a Futurelight won't last a year or more unless it is seriously abused. But probably not the best investment for longer term.

 

Will they fail before or during show? That's impossible to say for any light, especially automated ones. I would have no more confidence in 26 new Varilites working than 26 Futurelights. But I would know that with something like VL that it would get fixed somehow and the show would happen. And that's the point about purchasing something with backup/parts availability. Moving lights do and will go wrong. Often you pay for ease of repair as much as anything else.

 

I completely understand the tax and budget problem, but I do think you could get some Robe 700AT units for the same price, especially in that quantity. If I had the choice between the two I would definitely choose the Robe even though it was 700W. I doubt the difference would be noticeable.

 

Well, its an open area as I said. its a football field... and I need maybe 2000w heads but they are going about 20.000euros (coemar's) and it is like death for me.

 

700w wont work outside... they will be lost even if they are too many.. I don't know. I am very confused. I am mostly afraid that maybe some of the basic heads (maybe the one over the singer, or one of the ones next to drums) will fail, will stop working u know.

 

are FTs heads made in germany or in china?

[niclights]

FL were made in Czech Republic. I don't know if that's changed now or not.

 

If you want guarantee's then use just conventionals and/or LED's. Although chances are you'll be fine, assuming you test and prep them beforehand. And with so many units would a single failure be a disaster? It shouldn't be. The more units you have the higher the probability of failure but then it's a small percentage of a large rig. If there's time things can be re-programmed or at worst you could power down/lamp off a symmetrical unit.

 

As I said before just having a 1200W lamp doesn't necessarily mean anything. If the optics are poor then it will be the same as a good 700W unit. There is a thread here somewhere discussing this, and experienced users on large scale events were commenting the same. Don't assume based on figures (including manufacturers lumen output).

 

For amount you are interested in spending you should be able to get demonstrations of any fixtures you like and be sure. I wouldn't even think of spending that sort of money without doing this.

 

 

But there was another more important thing I missed:

 

In your example you suggest your supplier will want 60% markup. Seriously? On your figures I make that a profit of 116,700 Euro. I think not! Do you have actual quotes for this or are you making assumptions? If you have quotes then don't use that company.

 

When I mentioned the price here of 4499 euro for a FL 1200 Spot it already includes reseller profit, and as just a single unit. So you should add on your 40% tax and then get a discount over quantity. Find a distributor elsewhere in Europe that will export if necessary and do it that way.

[ImagineerTom]

Erm, Greece is part of the EU, there will be NO import dutys or penalties on any items you buy from any other European country. Depending on your corporate situation you will have to pay VAT at your local (greek) rate but you'll be able to claim that back if you're VAT registered. If a local supplier is telling you they have to charge you DOUBLE because of "taxes" then you need to find another supplier!

[KosmasKosmakos]

FL were made in Czech Republic. I don't know if that's changed now or not.

 

If you want guarantee's then use just conventionals and/or LED's. Although chances are you'll be fine, assuming you test and prep them beforehand. And with so many units would a single failure be a disaster? It shouldn't be. The more units you have the higher the probability of failure but then it's a small percentage of a large rig. If there's time things can be re-programmed or at worst you could power down/lamp off a symmetrical unit.

 

As I said before just having a 1200W lamp doesn't necessarily mean anything. If the optics are poor then it will be the same as a good 700W unit. There is a thread here somewhere discussing this, and experienced users on large scale events were commenting the same. Don't assume based on figures (including manufacturers lumen output).

 

For amount you are interested in spending you should be able to get demonstrations of any fixtures you like and be sure. I wouldn't even think of spending that sort of money without doing this.

 

 

But there was another more important thing I missed:

 

In your example you suggest your supplier will want 60% markup. Seriously? On your figures I make that a profit of 116,700 Euro. I think not! Do you have actual quotes for this or are you making assumptions? If you have quotes then don't use that company.

 

When I mentioned the price here of 4499 euro for a FL 1200 Spot it already includes reseller profit, and as just a single unit. So you should add on your 40% tax and then get a discount over quantity. Find a distributor elsewhere in Europe that will export if necessary and do it that way.

 

It would be great if you could send me the link with the forum you are talking about the lenses. I am not sure what you mean with the "markup". I have found 3 stores for FTs. 2 of them have just the same price. Even with the cents. One other are much cheaper than them (ex. Spot1200w 1st store 9.300, 2nd store 6800 - both with their flightcase)

 

One of the more expensive told me though that those prices are for single buy so if I buy more I get more cutting from the price.

 

Erm, Greece is part of the EU, there will be NO import dutys or penalties on any items you buy from any other European country. Depending on your corporate situation you will have to pay VAT at your local (greek) rate but you'll be able to claim that back if you're VAT registered. If a local supplier is telling you they have to charge you DOUBLE because of "taxes" then you need to find another supplier!

 

No, non supplier tell me anything about their prices. I guess so for the TAX... Are you sure about it? I mean, are you sure that if I buy from any Country within the EU, I pay no taxes? So I got to find some Country within... good. thanks

[KosmasKosmakos]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear., I cant even think right now. anyway, thanks to everyone! I think I am gonna have to talk with the store managers for one again. I still wait for ideas, advices and infos about FTs heads.

 

Thanks

 

EDIT: I post the link of the SPOT 1200W from Futurelight. ( http://download.showtechnic.de/?id=00027473.pdf ) Please download it if you please, someone who knows from technical stuff, and tell me if you can see about the optics if they are mentioned.

 

thanks

[Sirch Sound]

It would be great if you could send me the link with the forum you are talking about the lenses. I am not sure what you mean with the "markup". I have found 3 stores for FTs. 2 of them have just the same price. Even with the cents. One other are much cheaper than them (ex. Spot1200w 1st store 9.300, 2nd store 6800 - both with their flightcase)

 

One of the more expensive told me though that those prices are for single buy so if I buy more I get more cutting from the price.

 

The markup is the amount of money the company is making from the sale. Fro example if the company bought a light in for £1000 and sold it for £1100 they have a £100 markup. Generlly, the more units you buy, the less markup the company will charge on each item.

 

Rich

[dvidos]

Hi Kosmas,

 

My name is Dimitris and I am from Athens, Greece.

You do not state in your profile where you are located.

 

Prices may be up if you are outside Athens, mostly due to transport issues, but the ones you are stating are quite high. You do not name the stores you asked, and I cannot help you on verifying these prices.

 

But I can assure you this, as an example: on purchases I have made from Thomann (Germany), the greek VAT of 19% was included in the price. Therefore I did not pay anything extra for the goods to arrive at my door. VAT was payed to the greek goverment by Thomann and since they are located inside the EU, there is no importing tax or customs.

 

Feel free to PM me if you think I could help.

[lichtwicht]

The days that FutureLight fixtures were produced by nowadays Robe in the Czech Republic are long gone. These units are since then produced in China.

There've been already lots of statements how much the optics influence the real output.

But I miss one thing here: Beside the initial purchase price and the running maintenance costs you should also consider the money you'll get when you want to get rid of your fixtures again.

For example you get here in Germany for 3 years old Martin fixtures still 40% of the initial price so that you actually only need to finance 50% over three years (or around 70-80% over six years). Considering this reselling value of 'brand fixtures' makes pretty often 'brand fixture' on the long run more effective than cheap fixtures that noone wants to buy in used condition.

[niclights]

Link to Brightest Movers thread

Note that this discussion is mostly about fixtures at the more expensive end. But it should be an illustration.

 

The specifications for a fixture cannot tell you how good the optics are. That is why you need to see them and compare.

In my experience there are three things that make the difference between cheap and expensive movers - optics, ease of maintenance & aftersales support.

I must say I am rather shocked that you seemed to be happy to spend so much money without knowing these things.

 

Perhaps it is worth speaking to AC Lighting and talk about export options. I think you might be surprised.

 

/edit: Also, I do suggest filling in your profile information properly. Otherwise I'm beginning to think you really are...

[KosmasKosmakos]

Link to Brightest Movers thread

Note that this discussion is mostly about fixtures at the more expensive end. But it should be an illustration.

 

The specifications for a fixture cannot tell you how good the optics are. That is why you need to see them and compare.

In my experience there are three things that make the difference between cheap and expensive movers - optics, ease of maintenance & aftersales support.

I must say I am rather shocked that you seemed to be happy to spend so much money without knowing these things.

 

Perhaps it is worth speaking to AC Lighting and talk about export options. I think you might be surprised.

 

/edit: Also, I do suggest filling in your profile information properly. Otherwise I'm beginning to think you really are...

 

hehe, I am what? crazy? haha. no no its ok I understand. I don't like giving out personal data in any case. I just don't. but anyway you helped me and since its a rule then ok.

 

So, I shall introduce my self. I am Kosmas from Patra, now livin in Athens, Greece (I'd love though to go back to Patra).

 

I have a budget of 100.000 euros and I will probably get from a bank an amount of 200.000 so I can start my busyness.

 

I think now its completed

 

/edit: given more than you wanted ** laughs out loud ** . I appreciate your help :P