3guk Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Paul, I noticed the fan noise too, but when compared to my macs they sounded about the same, and you are right, P/T wise the futurelights for me are a hell of a lot quieter !! Which 250watt ones did you buy just out of interest ?? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 MH-660 spots and 640 wash lights - I don't know if the replacements are better or worse, or even radically different internally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 @hippocrocaphant: Shortsighted? Poor choice of word for you I would say! I speak only from experience. I have used fixtures from all the manufacturers I mention in this thread and would place Martin at the bottom of my preference along with Futurelight. Given the original question then, yes, there is no doubt they are better in terms of support and service but when talking of price then they must be compared with the other manufacturers :( Hype is exactly how I see Martin products. They get the most publicity and so many people think they must be the best. Indeed moving lights are often referred to as 'macs' by those less involved in the industry. That must annoy Varilite! When you say that Martin make the 'best' products, is this from experience? What is it you like about their products above the others? I think it is also important to say that although you might be correct that you could damage a product, the vast majority of people in this industry are fairly keen to take things apart and fiddle, especially when you can't afford the downtime or even the time to package up and send away. If something is well engineered inside you will have a far better time. However, it is totally pointless to argue. It is the purpose of forums to gain knowledge from each others experiences and it is clear here that where myself and JaySelway might have had many problems with Futurelight (or at least their older units), Paulears has not. Such is the world (or at least the way of these most annoying things!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippocrocaphant Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 @hippocrocaphant: Shortsighted? Poor choice of word for you I would say! I speak only from experience. Please don't presume to know me or know what experience I have in the industry, It is the purpose of forums to gain knowledge from each others experiences I have used and serviced moving heads from every manufacturer mentioned in this thread ANDIN MY EXPERIENCE I think that the Martin fixtures provide the best overall value for money. In terms of my original point, the Martin fixtures are very easy to work on and for the less experienced technician their support structure can get people out of an expensive hole. The majority of moving heads that I have serviced and repaired are faults caused by lack of proper maintenance or a bodged repair (and this goes for all manufacturers) because the owner of the units doesn't know what they are doing when they get inside the unit.... so from this point of view (and this is my opinion that I have generated from my own experiences- since this is the point of this forum, as niclights so kindly pointed out) Martin's greater support structure and aftersales service would suit the original poster, who sounds to me like someone who has very little experience (no disrespect intended) with moving light - hence the original question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 The trouble is that, as with everything, everyone has their favourites. Posting on the Blue Room (although a very good idea!) will get a certain number of enthusiasts standing up for their own preferances. 3guk likes Futurelights and Hippocrocaphant likes Macs. Maybe they've each used their own favourites more and thus know their foibles better. Personally I've used Futurelights on 3 occasions and the ones I used were all awful. However they were all old models and I believe they've got a lot better since. I've used Macs a lot and have to say the quality shows through. When they work you can see why they cost more and when they don't, Martin Technical Support are very helpful, often telling you how to fix them yourself, otherwise turning round the repair very quickly. Personally I'd want to try both before spending any money. Why don't you see if anyone near you has any and will let you come and have a look. If not, see if there is a supplier of each who will give you a demo (even if you have to go to them). At least no-one is saying they wouldn't touch either with a bargepoll! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KosmasKosmakos Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Hi guys, I am glad I found this post for futurelight. I love futurelight stuff. they are really well made (I can only see that) and they are well optioned with quite good prices. I am willing of buying ... (take a big breath) ... ok? go... ...I am planing to buy: 26 x FUTURELIGHT PHS-1200 (Spot) and...16 x FUTURELIGHT PHW-1200 (Wash)...prices are good for me (9800euros for the SPOT, 9000euros for the Wash - both including the cases). By going to Martin I will buy double the money. and I don't really have any will to throw my money! They all cost about 389.000 euros wich is good for a starting rental company. My questions are: 1. Do they worth to buy?2. Will they last for a year? (thats how long its gonna take me to take my money back by renting - I know that)3. Are they gonna "keep on" on the "show time" or could I have some general brake down? Please help me if you like. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Maybe I'm missing something or maybe it's related to your location/dealers. But those don't look like good prices to me. I would have thought you could get any of the main manufacturers for that money/quantity, including Martin. And given the option I would chose one that had support/parts availability etc. Certainly in the UK at the equivalent prices I would look to pay that for Varilite//Martin/Robe (easily). There's no way I would even consider paying so much for Futurelight. A bad investment IMO. /edit: and a quick Google confirms average price is 4499 Euro for the Spot where list price is 5599. That's half your quote and not taking into account discount for multiple units. Are you sure you haven't made a mistake and prices were for 2+flighcase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taffymonster Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Having worked with Martin 250's as well as the aforementioned MH-660s I'll offer this. MH-660s - Having had over 30 sat in front of me and my job to make work again, I was baffled by how inconsistant these things were, especially with Heat errors, a few striking errors and worse. Heat sinks had fallen off microchips in a few (I'm sure this should never happen) and the casing wasn't very robust on the head unit itself. Also thought the cabling looms were badly thought out. I can't speak for the model you're looking at but generally I found the build quality to be unsuitable for a machine that is constantly moving and rocking about. Also, as for service and repairs we used ROBE as they were the only ones we felt confident in sending them to... Martin 250's - had 10 of these in a venue I worked at - 4 of the older ones that were frankly rubbish (heat errors, striking problems having to continually reset until they strike) and 6 new Kryptons - that I thought were fantastic - intensity that punches above its weight with good (if not basic) optics, good response and few errors in over a year or 3/4 times a week use. I will again agree with someone above in that the pan/tilt is quite loud so bear that in mind for the environment in which they will be used. Ours was a nightclub / gig venue so we didn't give a rats arse... HTH ad EDIT I am a div and realise the post I'm replying to is 2 years old... Didn't notice page 2 ** laughs out loud **. Still, my points stand... I disagree with KK about futurelights being "very well made" and will once again raise the point about FLs being unreliable on show. I cant speak for the 1200s though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KosmasKosmakos Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Maybe I'm missing something or maybe it's related to your location/dealers. But those don't look like good prices to me. I would have thought you could get any of the main manufacturers for that money/quantity, including Martin. And given the option I would chose one that had support/parts availability etc. Certainly in the UK at the equivalent prices I would look to pay that for Varilite//Martin/Robe (easily). There's no way I would even consider paying so much for Futurelight. A bad investment IMO. /edit: and a quick Google confirms average price is 4499 Euro for the Spot where list price is 5599. That's half your quote and not taking into account discount for multiple units. Are you sure you haven't made a mistake and prices were for 2+flighcase? There is a TAX for the reselers in Greece to bring the items in the Country. 12OOW in Futurelight Cost as I told you about 9000Euro but martin 1200W cost about 14000 euros. No, no mistake.1 1200Spot + 1 case wich holds that one (and only one - is single) cost me that much. Multimulate that to the how many I need and you will see that I can not afford it. Thanks for replying. Any idea and reply is acceptable and I will apreciate it! :) Having worked with Martin 250's as well as the aforementioned MH-660s I'll offer this. MH-660s - Having had over 30 sat in front of me and my job to make work again, I was baffled by how inconsistant these things were, especially with Heat errors, a few striking errors and worse. Heat sinks had fallen off microchips in a few (I'm sure this should never happen) and the casing wasn't very robust on the head unit itself. Also thought the cabling looms were badly thought out. I can't speak for the model you're looking at but generally I found the build quality to be unsuitable for a machine that is constantly moving and rocking about. Also, as for service and repairs we used ROBE as they were the only ones we felt confident in sending them to... Martin 250's - had 10 of these in a venue I worked at - 4 of the older ones that were frankly rubbish (heat errors, striking problems having to continually reset until they strike) and 6 new Kryptons - that I thought were fantastic - intensity that punches above its weight with good (if not basic) optics, good response and few errors in over a year or 3/4 times a week use. I will again agree with someone above in that the pan/tilt is quite loud so bear that in mind for the environment in which they will be used. Ours was a nightclub / gig venue so we didn't give a rats arse... HTH ad EDIT I am a div and realise the post I'm replying to is 2 years old... Didn't notice page 2 ** laughs out loud **. Still, my points stand... I disagree with KK about futurelights being "very well made" and will once again raise the point about FLs being unreliable on show. I cant speak for the 1200s though... So the 250s of FLs might be unreliable but the 1200s might be better right? I read that martins are more noisy. I mean, they cost about 10000 damn it. It cant be just a big waste. they would have got them in jail if they were selling trush. -_- Thanks for replying. Any idea and reply is acceptable and I will apreciate it! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bleasdale Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Appologies for stating the obvious, but could second hand kit be an option? Or maybe a mixture? joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I believe the pan/tilt noise on macs is standard and there is supposeably a self lubricating system which is supposed to deal with any noise. PS I have not seen this but was told when servicing 250s that it was nothing to worry about by a qualified engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 How about Robe units? Would they also be too expensive in Greece? I am shocked you are forced to pay twice as much. I thought the UK was one of the worst for being 'ripped-off'! Note that I wouldn't restrict myself to 1200W units. Sometimes it's difficult to see where all the power goes. Optic quality makes all the difference. Do bear that in mind when comparing prices - 1200W Futurelight might = 700W Robe. Potentially cheaper lamps too! While Robe and Futurelight were once one, there is now a big difference and the Robe units are a big player in the pro hire market here in the UK, especially the 700W models. They are proving themselves well. I would be much more confident with them than the Futurelight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KosmasKosmakos Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Appologies for stating the obvious, but could second hand kit be an option? Or maybe a mixture? joe Was that for me? anyway, if it was... Yes, a second hand is till an option but there are not anough second hand units. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. I mean! and I can not buy second hand from outside. there is the incoming tax. read bellow :) How about Robe units? Would they also be too expensive in Greece? I am shocked you are forced to pay twice as much. I thought the UK was one of the worst for being 'ripped-off'! Note that I wouldn't restrict myself to 1200W units. Sometimes it's difficult to see where all the power goes. Optic quality makes all the difference. Do bear that in mind when comparing prices - 1200W Futurelight might = 700W Robe. Potentially cheaper lamps too! While Robe and Futurelight were once one, there is now a big difference and the Robe units are a big player in the pro hire market here in the UK, especially the 700W models. They are proving themselves well. I would be much more confident with them than the Futurelight. Yeah, we really are expensive. There is a VAT about +50% when something is entering. I mean if something cost 1000euro out of Greece, by coming in Greece "the store" that gets it in, will pay a tax of 400euro maybe. so the price gets up to 1400. Then you have to add what the store needs to profit. so we go in about 2000 maybe for that item. Anyway, back in the subject. I need a quite big quantity of moving heads for a music show. it will be placed outise, on a football pitch. so I planed to buy 26spots + 16washes. + a 100 or so par lights. I need to know the problems that I might have with martins and futurelights. and I also must be sure that if I go on Futurelights, they wont fail by the time the show is on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bleasdale Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Is this is one-off gig btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KosmasKosmakos Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Is this is one-off gig btw? what does gig mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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