Damn Scrollers

[Gazlights]

Man I've never worked with loads of scrollers before! What a complete pain in the ass! they are really taking the piss.....I hope I get used to them soon! ;)

 

Anyone know any links where I can find some usefull information regarding getting these things to bloody work as they should!

 

I'm finding that a few seem to be in different colours or in split colour when they should be in a single colour! one of them randomly scrolls through all the colours at set points (I think I traced this down to a bad DMX cable though!)

 

when one is in the wrong colour or not in the correct position is this a problem with the way the gels are wound onto the rollers or is it just a programming issue of re-recording the scroller intensity at the right level? they all seem to be programmed at the same intensity which leads me to believe they are probably tensioned wrong?

 

Also do you really have to program a copy of the cue previous to the one in which you are using the scrollers without lamp intensity to create a 'mark' q which stops them scrolling through all the colours when you go on the next q? am I missing something here? what a pain in the ass!

 

I realise this is probably very vague information but any advice you peeps could give me would be great! bloody things......I would be much happier with generics and a simple three colour wash!

[Neil Frazer]

I would be much happier with generics and a simple three colour wash!

 

Why don't you do that then?

 

What make of scrollers are you using?

What desk are you using?

 

Out of frame scrollers can be caused by a number of things, Incorrect tension, Incorrect calibration, incorrect Programming.

Yes you do need to move the scroll before you bring up the intensity, Just like a moving light. I guess you don't use automated lighting much.

If a scroller scrolls through all its colours it is probably doing a reset which is usually due to an intermittent power connection or a short in the DMX line.

Most of the time scrollers are not a pain in the arse, you just need to understand how they work and treat them with a little respect.

 

If you do find yourself in a situation where you scroller is completly buggered however, please feel free to dropkick it into the stalls.

[JimWebber]

Hi! Try this little test...

 

Set all the scrollers to the same channel, then using the desk slowly increase that fader, and watch the scrolls carefully. If they are still out of sync, the problem will be with the scrollers, ie tension, calibration etc. as described by Neil. If the problem clears, it could be a signal or a desk error.

 

How are you actually controlling the channel if you are trying to use a 0-10 fader, "7" (For example) will not necessarily be the same across all faders, as far as lamp intensity goes, the difference will be negligible, however DMX values could be wildly different! It is far better if your desk will allow it is to enter a 0-100% or even better a 0-255 DMX value directly.

 

Just some thoughts...

 

Jim

 

EDIT: As Neil says, you WILL have to program a cue to move the scrollers at zero intensity, before you use them, as well as a dummy cue after, otherwise as the lamp dims, the scroller will move as well... Some desks will treat the scroller as a Latest Takes Precedence (LTP) attribute, therefore negating any "Dummy" cues. But that is complicating things...

[gareth]

Neil's right, we need to know what kind of scrollers you're using before we can offer any meaningful suggestions as to why some of them aren't lining up full-frame when they should be and what you might do about it.

 

Scrollers do take a little getting used to - they have to be set up properly (tensioned and calibrated) if they're to work well, and there are implications when programming (as you've already worked out). But if you expect something for nothing, you'll be disappointed. Yes, you do have to program mark cues - but that's a fairly basic thing to achieve, and if you find it too much of a pain in the arse or too difficult then you should follow Neil's suggestion and go back to a three-colour wash.

 

Life is going to be easier if you're using a control system that has an elegant way of dealing with LTP channels, rather than something which only supports HTP - but you don't tell us what you're using, so there's not much to be said about that at the moment.

[Bryson]

I'll bet he's using Chroma-Qs...

[Tomo]

Two questions:

 

Which Console?

 

Which Scrollers?

 

You will often find that scrollers 'drift' as the springs inside them wear out, and as the gel itself stretches and settles on the rollers.

Spinning them from end to end a few times helps settle the gel, but they will still drift.

 

So I'd never address them all the same, because you'll get stuck with some of them being in split colours as they drift.

 

If your console supports colour palettes, then make sure you use them - it's much easier to fix 12-20 palettes as required than however many hundreds of cues you've programmed.

 

A few consoles provide built-in support for scrollers - some better than others - which may or may not help you.

[Gazlights]

Yes you do need to move the scroll before you bring up the intensity, Just like a moving light. I guess you don't use automated lighting much.

 

Good guess.....not used moving lights for ages and I'm new to scrollers but now im using 6 mac 300's, 6 mac 250's, 4 Robocolour 1220's, and 36 Coloram II Scrollers....and a shed load of generic stuff...all controlled with a Hog PC.

 

I'm actually doing okay to say I'm pretty new to using good equipment but its just these few niggling little problems that I think have been happening for a while.....I'm trying to tidy someone else's mess up really. its all pertty poorly maintained and It looks like someone has been trying to learn the desk before I arrived because they have pretty much messed all the groups up....they are listed in the palletes but when they are wheeled up nothing happens. I'm going to have to re-record them all but the next problem is that I have no lighting plan and dont know the system that well yet. trying to plot shows is a nightmare at the moment. :huh:

 

still I'll get there just got keep on sorting it out bit by bit....maybe I'm going to take one to pieces and see how it works....cheers for the advice so far peeps...

[merlin24]

Good guess.....not used moving lights for ages and I'm new to scrollers but now im using 6 mac 300's, 6 mac 250's, 4 Robocolour 1220's, and 36 Coloram II Scrollers....and a shed load of generic stuff...all controlled with a Hog PC.

 

Right if they are coloram II 's then the problem is very likely in the tension and or where the gel header is placed on the spindle. From memory the Coloram II's (4" and 10 ") require 8 turns to get the required tension. The gel header must be placed on the marker point on the spindle. They also have a small sensor in the bottom which is used to calibrate the scroll. it basically senses the tape between the colours. If this sensor is dirty then it will cause issues with calibratiion and being able to find the correct stop point.

 

A basic tension test is to gently push the scroll towards the lense of the lamp and then let go it should spring back and not be loose.

 

I would point out that if these are hire units then talk to the hire company, other than basic cleaning you should not be doing anything with rescrolling the unit unless you are very sure of what you are doing.

 

Regards

Andy

[Tomo]

I'm actually doing okay to say I'm pretty new to using good equipment but its just these few niggling little problems that I think have been happening for a while.....I'm trying to tidy someone else's mess up really. its all pertty poorly maintained and It looks like someone has been trying to learn the desk before I arrived because they have pretty much messed all the groups up....they are listed in the palletes but when they are wheeled up nothing happens.

You may find it easier to spend some time writing down the DMX address of where everything is patched, then starting over with a blank show.

 

Be sure to make two backups of the current files - one on the PC hard disk, and one on an external drive.

 

That's pretty much what I had to do when I took over a venue in that kind of sorry state - I left the production shows well alone, and then rebuilt a clean patch and suite of palettes to build the visiting guest entertainer shows from.

 

Otherwise, try to find the original show files - hopefully there has been a series of backups made, so you may be able to find an ancient one with correct palettes to import from.

 

Thankfully the Coloram II manual is still available from Wybron, so that should help you with the scroller end of things!

 

I bet you're on a cruise liner...

[paulears]

It does occur to me that nothing says the same scroll order is in each one - if they've been around for a while, they could have specials in them. If you are doing a new show, it could be a wise move to reduce the scroller count a little, to give you some hot spares?