HSE research recommends ear defenders for trumpet players

[chrisfromtaunton]

Thanks to all of you guys for your informative contributions - its a great forum site.

 

I'm a H&S consultant with a few customers who make music and noise. For those with an interest in the implementation of the Noise regs read page 3 of this from the HSE website http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/hsl_pdf/2006/hsl0696.pdf

 

I'm interested in your comments and if anyone wants to mail me fine clp@taunton83.freeserve.co.uk

[paulears]

Well I wondered when the watchdogs would get around to controlling the really dangerous occupations such as playing the trumpet! What is absent from the report is any comment on the reasons the musicians prefered to uncover one of their ears when presented with headphones. They couldn't play with both ears covered (or play as well, perhaps) Not a surprise there, the same thing happenes in recording studios every day. t the time I'm writing this I have a man outside using a pnuematic hammer to break up my concrete drive - no ear protection at all. Surely, if the HSE intend to protect us, they should start with this kind of thing. Musicians have a vested interest in keeping their hearing as good as they can, and I find the fact that the author of the report didn't realise that orchestras never play for an entire day rather amusing. The MU won't let them play all day, and I can't think of any brass or reed players who can still have any lip control after more than an hour or two. A classic case of interference in minimal risk areas. I find the comments related to the brass section actually amusing. Unless I missed it, the trumpet players had dosimeters on their shoulders. Did it not occur to the writers that the loudest sound would actually be in the desks in front - to get to the shoulder the sound from the front has to reverse and go backwards. No comment on this at all?

 

Judging from the traces contained in the report, it looks as if most recorded ambient noises from the local area - the timps are certainly loud, but rarely play continuously as the traces suggest? What actual music was being performed? What performance directions were in the score.

 

Logically someone will have to derive a set of calcs based on the number of notes, the volume as in ppp to fff to calculate the exposure limits. Will each piece have volume information in the score. As in, remember that after the second movement everyone must stop playing for a while to allow the cumulative exposure to reduce a bit.

 

The HSE are telling people to be realistic on their web site - stop all the silly nonsense, and then they commision a report that pretty well all the musicians are aware of already. It'd damn loud near the timps and brass - I think we actually knew that, and deal with it on a regular basis. The assumption that electronic assistance will be required to limit exposure is total nonsense - orchestras are hugely expensive and lose money requiring subsidy. Turning them into electronic bands requiring a mixer (the balance is the conductors job) rather makes the concept of an orchestra redundant - something the writer failed to include in the report.

 

 

Factual accuracy isn't in doubt here, it's just a complete misunderstanding of the subject being analysed. I note there were no real conclusions drawn as to the effectiveness of the regualtions when in force. The volume police will be not exactly the most welcome people at musical events.

 

 

Last thing - the orchestra was at a pop concert - yest no mention is made of sound from any source other than the players? A little odd.

 

I'm not impressed - but quite resolved. The report does look and read very much like a student disertation - lots of facts, many measurements, plenty of comment - but lacking any coherent analysis, workable recommendations or even plain common sense!

Paul

[Simon Lewis]

read page 3 of this from the HSE website

 

Chris,

 

I suspect that those of us who have measured orchestral and amplified music will not be at all surprised by these results and recommendations. I also suspect that the requirement for players to wear hearing protection and possibly rearrange the positions they play at will be met with a chorus of disapproval and reasons why such moves would destroy their artistic integrity.

 

The two year period of grace has in many ways simply allowed the entertainment industry to put this issue on the back burner, and not address the issues that are being faced in industry.

 

I'll have a longer read of the document later!

 

Simon

[Pete McCrea]

On the subject of the Timps: "Reduction of the peak noise levels will only be achieved by quietening the percussion instruments themselves." Really? There's a surprise.

 

"The traditional arrangement of the orchestra places the loudest instruments at the back and the quieter instruments to the front." And is done so the quiet instruments have chance to fight through to the audience.

 

"The success of the rearrangement of the orchestra was also due to the awareness of the conductor, musicians and technicians of the need to keep the sound levels on the stage as low as possible. This need was accepted reluctantly by some of the pop musicians." He he he :-)

 

The OP's forum title comes from the section "Noise exposure from Headsets", where they discuss the effects of headsets being used to monitor the audio. They state that the musos wore one ear on one off to allow ambient sound in. they then state: "Mon-aural (single ear) headsets may be preferable for use by musicians where they want to keep one ear uncovered. Another alternative is to use headsets that provide sound attenuation. This enables musicians to listen at lower levels and to be protected against the ambient sound."

 

They then stateb "If musicians use headsets there may be some advantage in using headsets that provide some sound attenuation.", however they'll probably only wear on ear, and then turn the headphones up to balance the mix.

 

On the subject of the engineer keeping the sound levels down: "A practical way of achieving this control may be to have an indication of the actual sound pressure level somewhere in the orchestra.' and "Other noise control measures also need to be considered in conjunction with the rearrangement of the orchestra. These may include balancing of loud and quiet pieces in a programme.'

 

"When the Control of Noise at Work Regulations come into force hearing protection must be provided when exposure exceeds the lower action values and used when there is a risk that the upper action values may be exceeded. Players will need time to adjust to wearing protectors before the Regulations come into force.'

 

A quick google on the Author shows one or two other reports on a similar nature (one on the levels from rifle firing), leading me to the conclusion that she might not have much practical experience of being involved with an orchestra other than for creating this document. As others have said it does show a lack of understanding of the other issues surrounding the orchestra, such as being able to hear the ambience and also the musicians desire to protect their own hearing.

[Just Some Bloke]

Not too far OT, I hope, to wonder if and when FOH and monitor engineers at rock gigs will have to wear ear defenders when mixing. Got to be louder than playing the trumpet, surely?

[lightsource]

Not too far OT, I hope, to wonder if and when FOH and monitor engineers at rock gigs will have to wear ear defenders when mixing.

 

Yeah, but the monitors face the bands, so they'll need them too

 

And maybe the first few rows of audience when the subs are under the stage :P

[J Pearce]

Prior to this September I played at least 9 hours a week in orchestras and other ensembles.

Every summer I went on at least one tour, and did in the region of 30+ concerts a year.

 

I am a percussionist, and on my time on-stage I always wore plugs when necessary.

 

I find this report to be another case of the hse getting involved without fully understanding the context.

 

Yes, when I play orchestral cymbals I can make some very big spls, however due to physical nature of the instrument, there are never too many loud hits consecutively. My arms would fall off before I went over exposure limits.

Certain compositions are louder than others. Last time I played 'Fanfare for the Common Man' the conductor asked for 'earth shattering timpani', at which point I requested that the brass section in front of me move further away and the whole percussion section wore plugs.

 

It is in musicians interest to keep their hearing, no orchestral musicians I know of want to lose it and then use it as a battle medal a la rock guitarist...

 

In my time drumming for shows where space is often limited, I have used music stands with acoustic foam to shield players ears from my kit and cymbals.

 

It is a matter of common sense, control and communication. The conductor may communicate that he wants more bass drum, my common sense says the clarinet player in front needs to move, and all is well. The bassoons may communicate that the timpani are too loud for them, it is then decided that we just play quieter, I use my control to keep it quiet.

It really isn't rocket science...

 

As for re-arranging the orchestra, there are many practical problems with this.

Firstly percussionists usually stand, this would then require anyone behind them to be on staging.

Secondly percussionists and brass players often go for 15mins+ without anything to play, percussionists usually sit down and be hidden by the orchestra. Brass players are often not required and retire to the bar, them leaving the stage would leave the front of the stage looking messy.

Thirdly cue lines on sheet music (after the obligatory 300 bar rests in symphonies) rely on the standard orchestral seating. Timpani often have cue lines from the trombones, the proposed layout would leave the timpanist a lot further from the trombones, possibly causing problems with cues.

Fourthly the orchestra is steeped in tradition, much moaning and squabbling would ensue from implementation of the new layout.

Fifthly the proposed layout puts the double basses at the rear of the orchestra, basses are relatively quiet instruments, and would need to be at the front to be heard.

Sixthly the proposed layout leaves the conductor far from the leader (chief 1st violin), who is sometimes consulted for advice, and usually helps with organising the orchestra. The leader also keeps the upper strings in check and organises bowing etc, this could be difficult from the proposed positioning.

 

[rant over]

That was a long one...

[Simon Lewis]

The report does look and read very much like a student disertation...

 

 

Possibly, but the author is a member of the IoA, and that isn't usually gained as a student.

[GridGirl]

I find this report to be another case of the hse getting involved without fully understanding the context.

 

I'd agree with that. I've spent years playing in orchestras, and we always had pretty good measures in place to prevent hearing damage - we always had soundshields for rehearsal and concerts, percussionists always wore plugs where necessary and I certainly haven't suffered any hearing damage, despite being a clarinettist and therefore always sitting in front of the trumpets. We were always aware of sound levels and preventing hearing damage.

[Simon Lewis]

I guess that I'm alone in having some sympathy for the HSE in this case.

 

All of the classical musicians make very real and valid points, but the industry as a whole has not answered two key issues:

 

1) Classical musicians (as well as well documented cases of "popular" musicians - and the attendant technical staff etc.) suffer from hearing loss arising from noise exposure in their employment.

 

2) The subject of whether entertainment noise should be included in the recently introduced Control of Noise at Work Regulations was discussed by various bodies - including the Musician's Union who welcomed the measures, whilst recognising the specific problems that would arise.

 

Therefore, there is a duty of care arising from point 1, and a need to work out the best practice needed for when we are asked to adopt the CONAWR in 2008.

 

This report does go a reasonable way in determining levels and possible solutions to what is a difficult and opinionated issue.

 

Simon

 

PS - this is a useful presentation by the MU

[MrPete]

MU Link fixed

 

Being in the education side of the industry, this is definately going to be an interesting challenge.

[Tomo]

I do find it somewhat amusing that a presentation by the MU has such incredibly irritating sounds.

 

However - there are some very interesting points.

 

I'm very uncertain as to how noise exposure control could be implemented for unamplified performance though.

The conductor is already balancing the sound at his location and thus for the audience, and therefore it is likely that local levels can't be reduced.

Given this, it is likely that earplugs for certain members of the orchestra may be the only available course of action, but they will be very difficult to design as the musicians must be able to hear the rest of the performers.

 

As for amplified performance, the job of the sound engineers just keeps getting harder and harder.

[obsoperator]

In the orchestras I've worked with, it's routine for players to have custom-molded, internal earplugs. I'm a terrible musician myself, but when the choice is learning how to play in an ensemble while wearing earplugs, and having permanent damage to a vital tool of your trade, a sensible artist would investigate how to prevent the damage.

 

I can't post a link to the original article (their online archives only go back to 1999), but while discussing a different topic (electromagnetic radiation), a Mix magazine author pointed out that when he made an effort to study hearing loss in sound operators regularly exposed to high-level concerts:

 

The turnout was almost nonexistent. When I asked a few colleagues why they opted not to take the hearing test, the response was reduced to a single phrase: "I don't want to know."

[Daley, Dan. "EMF, A Cause for Concern, Not Panic", Mix, October, 1993.]

 

In addition to the earlier comments about orchestra setups, I want to share something the leader of the NY Philharmonic bass section said to me. I was having great difficulty twisting and sliding his huge (in plan view) wooden riser to meet his requests, because of other musicians near him. He observed that when the famous conductor (who shall remain nameless here) was unclear in his beats, it was common for the orchestra to watch his bowing arm. He indicated that he sometimes exaggerated his preparation to make it more visible.

[Simon Lewis]

The classical musicians amongst you may find this to be of interest.

 

It predates the introduction of the Control of Noise at Work Regulations, but gives some useful data.

 

Simon

[Brian]

Not too far OT, I hope, to wonder if and when FOH and monitor engineers at rock gigs will have to wear ear defenders when mixing. Got to be louder than playing the trumpet, surely?

Well, you asked and the answer is now with us Measurement of noise levels that staff are exposed to at live music events.