Hard disc video recorders

[Dave]

Here's my problem:

 

I sometimes have to video conferences etc that can last up to, say, a whole day. I use a mini-DV camcorder which basically limits you to 60 minutes per tape.

 

I want to find a better way of doing it than using multiple tapes. Switching to a full-size camcorder is not really an option and would only be a partial solution.

 

There are some external firewire recorders available (DataVideo DV Bank and Focus Enhancements Firestore are the ones I'm aware of), but they are quite pricey and have fairly limited recording time.

 

So I'm wondering whether a domestic hard-drive DVD recorder with a firewire input would a better solution.

 

A few questions for the forum:

• Are there any other firewire recorders available other than those I've mentioned?
  
• Does anyone have experience of firewire recorders? Do they work OK, especially when recording several hours in one go?
  
• Has anyone taken a hard-disc DVD recorder on the road? Any reliability issues?
  

I am not worried about being able to do native DV editing, but being able to get the footage off the hard-drive faster than realtime would be useful.

 

Any ideas would be welcome.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[tlc]

Here's my problem:

 

I sometimes have to video conferences etc that can last up to, say, a whole day. I use a mini-DV camcorder which basically limits you to 60 minutes per tape.

 

Dave

 

With a decent laptop that has firewire capture capability (ie Sony VAIO or similar) you can use this to take direct feed from DV cam.

I have used a VAIO this way very sucessfully with no dropped frames , tho not for hours on end.

Robust and easy to tour.

 

Edit and burn off to DVD using the same laptop.

 

 

You will need plenty hard drive space tho (13gb per hour). Make sure it is defragmented space too.

Not sure what you mean by a whole day. 5 hours will need 65Gb. 8 hours 104Gb.

 

 

 

 

Only issue can be that some DV cams will go to standby after 5 mins on record if there is no tape running.

 

I often need to leave a tape running when using a domestic DV cam to feed a live feed to a projector at conference setups.

[paulears]

I often need to leave a tape running when using a domestic DV cam to feed a live feed to a projector at conference setups.

 

I've not found this a problem - a camcorder with no cassette inserted usually stay on permanently, it's only when a tape is inserted that the auto shut-off operates.

 

I'd recommend a piece of software called DV-rack for pc based recording. It has a number of features handy for this kind of thing - and has the really useful feature of being able to stop one clip recording, and start another without dropping a frame - these can be put back together in the editor later if needed.

 

www.seriousmagic.com

 

Paul

[dbuckley]

There are two HD DVD recorders I know of that I fancy, though I've never actually seen either, I just like their featuresets.

 

http://www.nNovia.com - the A2D, and thre is now a model with interchangeable disks. This is intended to be used mobile, so it should be relatively tough

 

The other is the Rosendahl Bonsai

 

As I said, never tried either, but the both look useful tools.

 

Editied to say: post #1000, and nothing odd has happened,... hmmm...

[paulears]

for the last two pantos we used a nNovia hard drive recorder as playback for video (Snow White magic mirror) - it has a really simple user interface and when you push go - it works straight away. Never lost a single cue! and - really small.

[slim_mcslim]

We have 2 lite-on domestic HDD/DVD recorders both of them are attached to 2u rack shelves and flight cased.

 

We tour these all over the place, and use them for recording conference/events where the cost of tapes would be prohibitive. They record very high quality mpeg and have the ability to burn a dvd straight out of the unit. They have firewire in, and have used it successfully for 2 hour periods.

 

There is no easy way to get the data off these boxes for editing, I tend to burn it to DVD then re-encode the VOB files on the mac. However the boxes do have limited editing ability (similar to that on a minidisc) and if you make up some titles for your films, you can firewire them into the unit, and then join them onto the recorded video, and output it all as one film.

 

P.

[henny]

the unit I currentley use is the JVC SR-DVM700 , its 250GB HDD, Mini-DV, and DVD in one , it can record 2 feeds at once, cross dub ect , and has firewire ect , can chop edit on it and do all your menus, origronal sales info said it's hdd can be accessed directley to copy the dv files strait off it but this is not ture, but for the price it aint a bad pice of kit for aprox £1k

 

 

ian

 

 

This innovative device incorporates 250GB HDD, Mini-DV, and DVD in a compact package. It is also capable of recording the three formats in both directions, enabling six way multi-dubbing.

 

Features of the SR-DVM700E include commercial DVD and DVCAM playback, a synchronised editing system (SES) and an automatic repeat function for creating multiple discs and 18 pre-installed DVD background patterns with the option to create personal ones.

 

The SR-DVM700E can be used as a recorder or backup device by connecting it directly to a DV camera via the IEEE 1394 connector. This can provide continuous DV format recording for up to 18 hours on the HDD, which is equivalent to approximately four DV large cassette videotapes. The 250GB hard disk drive also offers high-storage capability with extended recording times of up to 473 hours when recording in FR480 mode.

 

An RS-232C interface equipped with a standard DB9 connector is available for basic functions, making it ideal for professional applications and home projection installations. In addition a convenient IEEE 1394 bus interface makes easy direct connection to NLE systems or to a PC for downloading, editing and archiving.

[Dave]

Thanks for helpful replies, guys.

 

Wasn't aware of nNovia until now - their product looks quite nice.

 

Also I found a company called Shining Technology that make a similar product called the CitiDisk.

 

I knew about the BonsaiDrive, but it's not suitable as it doesn't have a Firewire input. (Yes, it has an SDI option, but that's OTT for me).

 

The JVC product is interesting but not quite right.

 

How much experience does Paul (and anyone else) have of DV Rack? Is it stable and will it record for a couple of hours without glitches?

[paulears]

I have DV rack on both my laptop and edit machine. I use it in preference to premiere pro that has a dedicated import system, that is good, but not as good as dv rack. It is very expensive, mind you - but I have their ultra virtual studio suite too - business expense. the way it works is a little unusual. you are presented with a virtual rack of kit including a monitor (2 actually) and a digital video recorder. hit record and it starts - you can set a pre-buffer, so it captures say 6 seconds BEFORE you push record, so you don't miss things - this is really useful. just play the tape, see the start of what you want to capture, hit record and you're guaranteed not to miss anything. at an appropriate point, hit record again - this closes the previous file and starts another without dropping a frame. when you are done, you see a thumbnail for all the clips showing duration and other details, you then 'eject' the clip which moves it to the ejected clip folder.

 

There are vectorscopes, rgb monitors, waveform monitors - all calibrated and really useful. There is a shot grabber that saves a single frame in jpg, png or bitmap. The monitor can have safe zones, different format overlays etc. The one thing I haven't used is a colour balance and focus check tool. They supply a test chart and you use this to do a calibrated set up.

 

They just offered me an upgrade to the latest version which I have done. The new features are things like time lapse recording - you can specify how many frames and how long between. Great for sunsets and cloud formations I've found. the other thing is motion recording - you can leave it in standby and select movement parameters, and when it sees movement it starts recording - stopping after no movement for so many seconds/minutes. It has never crashed once in the year since I've been using it -excluding the few times I kicked the camera cable and got the windows bing-bong, bing-bong connect/disconnect noises - in mid capture this threw everything - but I suspect this is a windows device problem, not DV Rack.

 

Their web site has plenty of info - it is annoyingly american, but pretty spot on in the claims they make. probably worth downloading the demo and making your own mind up.

 

On one shoot recently, I was using full size (3hr) DV tapes, but ran out and used dv rack to cover the gaps, recording to an external drive. by the end of the second day - I was recording via DV rack, and using the tapes as the backup - because I suddenly realised how much time I'd save not having to capture everything.

[Peter F]

It is very expensive, mind you - but I have their ultra virtual studio suite too - business expense.

 

Without the ultra virtual studio sofa suite set it's not too pricey.

Around £200 inc vat.