Pete Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Morning all, Theatre reasonably close to home is after a (motorised) way of flying scenery,Light cloths mainly weighing not in excess of 20KG. I suggested they look at hoists and came back with something very similar to this . Doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me but having never used them may I ask if anyone has,and if so... -Are they noisy? -Is it easy to extend the control cable? -Does a multiple way controller exist? Just to say that,They'd be attached to a suitable fixing and used by competent Peron's. So its more the practical rather safety issues I need to discuss. Cheers for the help Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Funny you should ask that... I have been presented with two of these for precisely the same purpose; lifting cloths, but in my case for the painters in the workshop. It looks easy enough to extend the cable, but I doubt you'll find a multi-way control. I'd be surprised if they lift in sync in any case. As I haven't started the job I can't give much more than that. The first one to get them rigged to report back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 Just as another one for my list of questions,can you move the end stops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Tovey Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 -Are they noisy? -Is it easy to extend the control cable? -Does a multiple way controller exist? NoYesNo, but I suspect not difficult to make one Just as another one for my list of questions,can you move the end stops? Not easily Have just bought something very similar (although not from Ebay) for storing stuff in the wings of my venue. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 27, 2006 Author Share Posted October 27, 2006 Cheers Peter, I dont think I'd source from ebay-it's just easy to link to. Hmmm now to work on a way round the end stop problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightsource Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Don't forget the required H&S and Risk assesment..... just a reminder :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 (Are they noisy)NoDepends on the context. In the middle of a rock&roll band's set, no. In the middle of a play, yes. (Extending cables, multiway controllers)YesNo, but I suspect not difficult to make oneHome made lifting kit never struck me as a very good idea. Unless of course you build it to the appropriate BS standard, not something I'd want to take on. You'd be entering the scary world of "product liability", it might be fun to get your insurer's opinion on that. Have just bought something very similar (although not from Ebay) for storing stuff in the wings of my venue.What does the manufacturer say about using it to suspend (as opposed to lift) a load? (Or do you use yours merely to lift things onto racking, for example?) Some other things to consider, before trying to use these crappy winches as a powered 'live' flying system:Where will you have "emergency stop" switches, and how will you wire them?How will you keep 2,3 or more of these winches in sync? (To share load evenly between them and avoid distorting/bending/breaking flats, bars, etc.)Have you given any thought to speed control? (ie: there isn't any. You want a flying system that only runs at one - slow - speed and doesn't have any kind of soft start/stop?)How do you propose to set 'deads'?What about overload/no load sensing? An important part of any decent theatrical powered flying system, not a feature of these winches. For example, what happens if a bar snags something on the way in or out? In short, this is a really bad idea. Trying to come up with a powered flying system this cheaply is likely to cost you dearly, and you'll be lucky if its only money that gets wasted. You say they'll be installed and operated by "competent Perons" (your local theatre just does productions of "Evita"?). Sorry, I don't believe you. These little hoists have their uses, but in the context you're proposing to use them, no competent person would touch them with a 10 foot pole. All this for cloths weighing no more than about 20kg? What's wrong with good old fashioned hemp sets? They're tried and tested, have variable speed, soft starts and stops, you can set accurate deads, you get immediate feedback on overload/no load situations, they're cheap and they keep you fit. Soz.Seanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Surely there simply cannot be a solid, 100% answer here. The winches may or may not be any good for the purpose intended. They could well not have any certified dsign limits, they might not even have hooks or terminations that have proof markings. Even if they have, are they real ones or just (probably) stamped in letters signifying not a lot? Buying a couple could well prove a good investment if they are decent, and you have a method of testing them and providing the paperwork required for whoever needs it. If it is a licenced venue then using lifting equipment that doesn't comply with the regs is trouble you can do without. I suspect these simply have a microswitch enabled top limit, and probably nothing at the bottom. They certainly are cheap, but DIY lifting with cheap kit seems worrying to me. If, however, a proper firm, in the field tried them, and were willing to put their name on the line - I'd have no major problem using them - but I wouldn't want to be the person to make the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen Heringa Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 The ones that I have seen are too noisy to use during a play. (Might depend on brand you get though) We have 2 installed on the fixed truss at our youth centre, just for flying band backdrops. It's easy to extend the control cable and to modify the controllers, just get an electrician to do it for you ;) How ever, in use I've seen it's not that easy to get them to lift at the same time if your using two with with two seperate controllers. How ever with our band backdrops it's nice to have an easy to use fly bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutwo Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Being a college theatre in an old building, we have no room to fly anything. These might well come in handy for dropping bars in and out for drapes, the bars obviously being suspended properly once in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 28, 2006 Author Share Posted October 28, 2006 Have just bought something very similar (although not from Ebay) for storing stuff in the wings of my venue.What does the manufacturer say about using it to suspend (as opposed to lift) a load? (Or do you use yours merely to lift things onto racking, for example?)Sean-Check who your quoting pleaseYou say they'll be installed and operated by "competent Perons" (your local theatre just does productions of "Evita"?). Fair play I made a typo,I do spell check my posts though and I don't think this is the type of thread to make that sort of comment All this for cloths weighing no more than about 20kg? What's wrong with good old fashioned hemp sets? They're tried and tested, have variable speed, soft starts and stops, you can set accurate deads, you get immediate feedback on overload/no load situations, they're cheap and they keep you fit. Couldn't fit a hemp set in this place,and the technicians using it wouldn't have the physical power to use it. (Edited to make quotes work) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Sean-Check who your quoting pleaseOops. Duly edited. It was early and I got my "Peter"s muddled up. Fair play I made a typo,I do spell check my posts though and I don't think this is the type of thread to make that sort of commentJust my little (ok, very little) jest, no need to get tetchy. Perhaps I should have added a smiley, here's a retrospective one: <_< Couldn't fit a hemp set in this place,and the technicians using it wouldn't have the physical power to use it.20kgs? Those are some mighty weedy technicians you have there! Seanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 28, 2006 Author Share Posted October 28, 2006 Didn't mean to be tetchy!Tired mainly. Wouldn't say weedy,but considering DDA et all................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 you have disabled flymen? The 20K mentioned is really light weight for a cloth - if the people doing the job really struggle with loads this light then the other snag is going to be that attaching the load to the hooks is going to be just as difficult. One thig nobidy has mentioned yet is two winches normally mean a rigid support - as in two chord truss, or something chunky enough not to bend if you put a bigger load on. In some smaller venues I can think of, these kind of winches would be pretty useful - certainly better than the blue poly rope with pulleys coachbolted into the roof timbers. Some even have the same size lines on each end. In this kind of venue, I'm slowly coming around to thinking these cheap winches could actually be quite useful - despite the basic and posibly unknown characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 28, 2006 Author Share Posted October 28, 2006 No,but there's the possibility of disabled technicians wishing to use the venue. The other possibility for this venue is pretty much excatly what your saying Paul-coach bolted Pulleys. I dont want to go anywhere near that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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