Bennage Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Hi peoples, I've been working around London doing general stage crew and technician work, but this week I am making use of my A/V skills.My normal rate of pay for crew work is £10ph at this venue, but I imagine I should be getting more for the role I'm taking this week.Does anyone have a rough idea what I should ask for (freelance)? Any advice would be very greatly appreciated! Big thanks, Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 To start with, if you're truly freelance you shouldn't be charging by the hour, you should be quoting an inclusive rate for the job. If you're getting paid by the hour you're an employee, and this has a big bearing on your situation. Have a Google around the BR - the whole "am I or am I not a freelancer?" thing has been covered in previous threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxopholist Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 How much you charge depends on exactly what you are doing and who for... But as Gareth says, you wouldnt charge by the hour anyway, but by the Job, traditionally a daily rate and you will need to have set yourself up to make your NI contributions and to do a self assesment tax return... You might well be better off negotiating a higher rate of pay with your employer... As to how much? As much as they will pay! HTH Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 While agreeing with the overall price vs hourly rate debate - playing devils advocate, my plumber charged me an hourly rate, and I certainly am not his employer! How come they are different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Good point Paul. Maybe he charges you as if each hour is a seperate job? Pondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Surely it doesn't matter whether you charge per hour or per day? At the end of the day your client sees a cost. Whether you express that as £100, or 10 hours at £10/hour is up to you. Initially they will have 'quoted' you a figure (Verbally or on paper). They will then have organised the job, and if they were ill they may have got someone else in to do the job, whilst taking the risk that they could make or lose money on the job. IIRC these are key indicators that they are self employed (besides the obvious Self Cert and Uniq number etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightsource Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I occasionally work for a customer at varying hourly rates depending on the job I'm doing. I keep a time sheet detailing the various jobs I do at the (pre-agreed) various rates. I then invoice him at the end of each month and include a copy of the time sheet. HOWEVER - I am self employed, fill in my own tax returns, and am vat registered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim_mcslim Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 we sometimes charge our clients an hourly rate on AV technicians, primarily because they are scared by charging them a lump sum of £x for a days labour, if you break it down to £y per hour, they tend not to baulk at the cost of labour... Invariably though x=y P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 we sometimes charge our clients an hourly rate on AV technicianBut presumably that's because "we" in this instance is an AV/production company and the technicians that you supply are employees rather than freelancers, and therefore not really relevant to the OP who specifically indicated that he was selling his services as a freelancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fender Bender Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 I'm self employed I charge by the day, by the hour, & by the job. depending on that I'm doing & who the client is. How you charge has nothing to do with whether you are self employed or not.Personally I wouldn't get out of bed for £10/hr. might as well go work for Mc Donald's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 How you charge has nothing to do with whether you are self employed or not.Wrong! But thanks for playing. <_< From this website : Employed or self-employed? Employee If you can answer 'Yes' to all of the following questions, you are probably an employee. * Do you have to do the work yourself? * Can someone tell you at any time what to do, where to carry out the work or when and how to do it? * Do you work a set amount of hours? * Can someone move you from task to task? * Are you paid by the hour, week, or month? * Can you get overtime pay or bonus payment? Self-employed If you can answer 'Yes' to all of the following questions, it will usually mean you are self-employed. * Can you hire someone to do the work for you or engage helpers at your own expense? * Do you risk your own money? * Do you provide the main items of equipment you need to do your job, not just the small tools many employees provide for themselves? * Do you agree to do a job for a fixed price regardless of how long the job may take? * Can you decide what work to do, how and when to do the work and where to provide the services? * Do you regularly work for a number of different people? * Do you have to correct unsatisfactory work in your own time and at your own expense?(Red text added for emphasis.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 OK, Can you decide what work to do, how and when to do the work and where to provide the services? I don't think any of us can meet this requirement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Employed or self-employed? Employee If you can answer 'Yes' to all of the following questions, you are probably an employee. * Are you paid by the hour, week, or month?Surely there is a differnece between "being paid by the hour" and "charging by the hour". Hypothetical, Yes I'll do the job, it'll take ten hours - that'll be £100 please. Rather than your 'employer' saying you worked 9 1/2 hours, we'll pay you £95 -tax & NI. IANAA (accountant rather than lawyer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timperrett Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 a good post by gareth there - and that is the official wording of the Inland Revenue on the subject. Can I help to explain how that works for our industry in my understanding, having studied it and consulted many people on this complex subject and encourage all you self employed people to be openly demonstrating our self employed status. Any work should be quoted for on a job by job basis. Regardless of time, travel expenses, food, accommodation etc. The quote and the invoice should both state: "THE WORK YOU WANT TO SUBCONTRACT OUT TO ME IS GOING TO COST YOU: £x", no mention of hours, day rates, extras, expenses, time dependencies. You can mention agreed deadlines for the work to be completed by (ie the day you are working), you can mention site location, and if you can even get away with not putting those on it is preferable - although may not be helpful for the accounts department to work out which job it is. Less is definitely more though. This is paramount to us being considered self employed, along with your own Public Liability Insurance, multiple clients, providing your own tools, PPE, having developed your own method statements and risk assessments, having terms and conditions for your contracts etc You can, if you want, explain to your client the breakdown of how you got to the final figure over the phone, but never leave the paper trail. It is also encouraged to leave a good paper trail. The tender for the work is put out by our client (usually the production company), you then quote (by email or snail mail), allocating your job reference number. They may then decide to take you up on your quote to carry out the work and send you a purchase order in paper form confirming you have won the contract, giving you their job reference number. You then carry out the work and invoice afterwards quoting both reference numbers. They send you a cheque (hopefully!). Paper trail complete. I personally consider the the term 'freelance' to be unhelpful, I am a subcontractor - it is more obvious. I am in no way employed by any of my clients. On rates for AV - it can vary depending on what you set your parameters to be - you set the rate. If you are not getting the work, you are either too cheap or too expensive! You can ask you client what sort of budget they have in mind for the contract and you can quote accordingly. This verbal hint is often the way the industry runs in my experience. It is then down to you and your 'entrepreneurial risk' which you take as to whether you will make money on the job!It is a tough world out there - but there is plenty of work if you are any good.I hope that helps TimTim Perrett is a self employed subcontractor in the design, management and engineering of production elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fender Bender Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Sorry Gareth I'm not wrong.What you have quoted are the tax office guidelines, these are not a definitive list.Although you may charge a client by the hour they don't pay you by the hour they pay the invoice total. most freelance crews are paid a day rate to make costing easier for production companies .As an electrician I charge eg: by the hour for call-out fault finding, by the job for installations, by the day if I'm subbing to a lighting /av company. I've been charging this way for 15years without any problems from the tax man. this I the way that most of my self employed colleagues also charge. A friend of mine is a full time music teacher he charges students £/hr to teach them from his home, so who does he work for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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