Advising an amateur company

[drjad]

I'm advising a local amateur company (established 70 years) about lighting and other aspects of staging. They seem to have had no theatre input for many years, existing on the efforts of very well meaning people who have domestic electrics and lighting in their minds. This company has their own building, which they have equipped themselves from a mixture of cast-offs and second-hand items from elsewhere.

 

At the moment I'm having difficulty convincing them that moving away from their current practice of using 13A domestic connectors on lighting circuits would be a good move. I've tried the following arguments, but several key people are still unpersuaded. Can anyone think of any convincing arguments to bolster these:

 

I. Safety: difficult to plug domestic appliances into 15A sockets which might become live by remote control

ii. Utility: saves having an extra fuse inline at an awkward place

iii. Versatility: easy to connect borrowed/hired lanterns when such may be necessary

 

All that is before I get started on changing the control setup: Tempus II, ACT6 racks, etc.! I need to get them used to a regime of change and improvement - and the 13A vs 15A thing seems a good start.

[Modge]

On here somewhere is a thread started by a noise boy suing a hotel for having dimmed 13's, into which he plugged his amps, which where promptly ruined.

The Risk of accidentally killing a Traic by plugging in something inappropriate.

The Risk of destroying anything domestic plugged into it - most stuff doesn't enjoy running on dimmed power.

Anything you hire will likely have a 15A plug on it.

 

The 4 best reasons I can think off of the top of my head, aside from "that's not how the rest of the UK does it"

[drjad]

Thanks Modge.

 

One of the factors I'm battling against is that they have recently had a professional director (or at least, one who teaches on a nearby performing arts course) saying that he doesn't see why the rest of the industry uses 15A - "use whatever's convenient" he is reported to have told them!

[David]

When did anyone who teaches at a performing arts course know anything about professional theatre!!!

 

 

David

[drjad]

Precisely, but that's what was said!

 

Anyway, I've been out of the industry for several years, and just getting to grips with advances recently (I'm very happy to be updated, relearn, etc.). But I take it that 15A for lighting circuits is still the norm - and for the reasons above?

[Jivemaster]

Current best practise seems to include 15a for dimmed power, 16a for hard power (movers etc) and 13a for d0m3stic (I've yet to see a phone charger on a ceeform!)

 

The reason for hatred of 13a is that every plug top has a fuse and any one or more could blow anywhere in the cable run.

 

There is some doubt about the future of 15a and ceeform could be a better choice.

[dave singleton]

All that is before I get started on changing the control setup: Tempus II, ACT6 racks, etc.! I need to get them used to a regime of change and improvement - and the 13A vs 15A thing seems a good start.

 

I may be reading this wrong or just compleatly confused but does that mean their dimmers have 13A sockets on them?

[Jivemaster]

Starting with an appreciation of current safety standards!

[bigglesuk]

Current best practise seems to include 15a for dimmed power, 16a for hard power (movers etc) and 13a for d0m3stic (I've yet to see a phone charger on a ceeform!)

 

Coming from the sound side of things I've always wondered about this. Most theatre installs seem to use 15A plugs and most lighting that I've seen when I've been engineering at gigs has been on Socapex to par can bars.

 

On the gig/touring scene what do they use if breaking out from Socapex for say a few floor cans? 15A makes sense, but then the 16A connectors are more robust and don't have the pins exposed which could be damaged.

 

 

Adam

[The Yellow Transit]

15A makes sense, but then the 16A connectors are more robust and don't have the pins exposed which could be damaged.

CEE forms are generally cheaper but then you run into the problem of needing 16a to15a adaptors if you borrow or hire.

[musht]

Sure there is actually a long term current handling abilty argument as well, more learned people here could more authoritively comment, but round pin power connectors are a lot more common than square in non dom35t1c use.

 

Just pure cost, 15A Duraplug no more than a 13A one, 16A ceeform probably cheaper.

[drjad]

I may be reading this wrong or just compleatly confused but does that mean their dimmers have 13A sockets on them?

 

 

No, standard (elderly) Act6es. Single 15A outlet per channel. They then run from 15A plugs at that end, to 13A sockets aroudn the stage. Completely awful in places, with FOH positions in quite the most useless locations. Mislabelled patching at the dimmer racks (in the FOH control room), combination of cable types, no patching at the stage area, etc..

 

This is a long project (several years) to get anything more versatile done, and is a gainst a background of seriously little finance. But there are some possibilities - however, to realise them I need to get the people used to a change culture, and have robust and coherent arguments to move from the status quo ante.

[Seano]

On the gig/touring scene what do they use if breaking out from Socapex for say a few floor cans? 15A makes sense, but then the 16A connectors are more robust and don't have the pins exposed which could be damaged.

The larger rock&roll lighting companies are pretty much all using 16A ceeforms these days, its quite unusual to see 15A connectors on a gig now.

[paulears]

If the manufacturer used 15, not 13 - then surely this must carry some weight. If 13 were standard, logic dictates that the dimmers themselves would have had them - as they don't even a non-technical head must at least consider it. Maybe show them some standard textbooks - let them have a read, phone up their local pro theatre and ask somebody there? If they resist you're stuck.

 

As I see it, they are being asked top spend money on non-productive elements. replacing a bit of cable and socketry shows no improvement in production values, bums on seats etc - if they have this mentality, you are on a hiding to nothing.

 

Best advice is think features and benefits. A feature on it's own is worthless, the benefit is what sells the product.

[dave singleton]

If the manufacturer used 15, not 13 - then surely this must carry some weight. If 13 were standard, logic dictates that the dimmers themselves would have had them

 

That was my exact thought. I did wonder if there was a version realeased with 13A and I happened to miss it somewhere along the way.