James SGS Sound Tech Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Hey Right. For out latest school production they are putting on Midsummer Nights Dream. They are doing this 'in the round'. Which is basically instead of using the stage, they are going to act in the middle of the hall, in a circular area, with the audience seated around. Most members of cast will be wearing a tie mic, so they can be heard above the band in songs etc as well as general acting. Our school hall, sound wise, is not set up for this. I have several movable speakers (around 6 or 7) as well as the two main house speakers. Any ideas on positioning of speakers in order to get the best sound and least feedback. Cheers J xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Generally, one of the reasons for theatre in the round is to get the audience "up close and personal", therefore eliminating the need for any extremes of reinforcement (if any is needed at all). Frankly, the first thing I'd be doing is considering carefully whether you really NEED amplification, especially on dialogue but even on musicial numbers. (By the way, since when is Midsummer Night's Dream a musical?) However, if your decision is that amplification IS needed, I've used a couple of techniques in the past. Whether either can be adapted for your space will depend on the room and the gear you have. First off, if you have the ability to fly speakers, I've had good luck with multiple cabinets flown just on the the stage side of the front rows of the audience, angled to provide audience cover but minimal spill on the acting area. It took some calculation of the dispersion angles to get the spacing right..but the goal was to use more speakers than usual and keep the levels from each nice and low for subtle reinforcement. The second way I've done this was to use small monitor wedges dotted round the edge of the acting area, facing the audience. The time I used this, the audience was only a few rows deep so the "blocking effect" of the front rows wasn't so much of an issue...you certainly wouldn't get much coverage farther back. Again, I used more speakers than usual and lower levels per speaker. (In both these cases we were working with the cast on a flat floor, i.e. no raised platform. If you do have a stage planned, you could mount small speakers as fills in the stage edge.) Hope this helps at least a little. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeisacabaret Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Divide the audience into 4 quarters of the circle and have a flown stereo pair for each section. Will take some quite considerable calculations, but its definitely a technique that can work very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Do you literally mean stereo? How do you manage the panning since, even with the best specced/aimed system there's going to be some overlap/spill? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnomatron Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 This is a school production, right? Are you coming in as an outside company, or are you a pupil at the school? (checks profile - student, then). Flying stuff will probably not be doable in-house, and almost certainly not by yourself. I'd go with the wedges on the ground if you really need sound reinforcement, but try to get away without it if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James SGS Sound Tech Posted October 8, 2006 Author Share Posted October 8, 2006 Thanks guys. To answer the questions. Our school have made it a musical by adding 'modern' songs. Going to be great or awlful. With general spoken lines the mics will either be off or very low, so only really used for the musical numbers. The 'fly' idea sounds great, but is impossible with both budget, skill and regulations in school. Thanks for all the help, and I will go with some kind of small speaker layout, using as many as possible with a low volume output. Cheers xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 You can't really do stereo in the round anyway - because the left becomes right, as you move around and the cast spend much of their time with their backs towards 180 degrees of the audience. Where is the band? If they are also in the centre, this is really bad news. Actually, without the correct equipment, much of this is bad news - very difficult to mix when people are facing the other way. any attempt to follow position with a left right pan is hopeless, for in-the-round you need a minimum of 3 channels, usually 4 and some method of controling pan properly - digital mixers might work - otherwise, go mono! The comments about really needing sound make perfect sense - if at all possible, do it unamplified. If you can't fly speakers, or find suitable floor mounted positions, give up. whatever you do, people will think the poor sound is your fault. Your teacher is unlikely to understand, not having given it any thought, leaving you with no budget to do even a passable job, unless expectations are so low as to not make it worth worrying about. You say it will be good or bad - doesn't sound as if you have any confidence in it either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James SGS Sound Tech Posted October 8, 2006 Author Share Posted October 8, 2006 You can't really do stereo in the round anyway - because the left becomes right, as you move around and the cast spend much of their time with their backs towards 180 degrees of the audience. Where is the band? If they are also in the centre, this is really bad news. Actually, without the correct equipment, much of this is bad news - very difficult to mix when people are facing the other way. any attempt to follow position with a left right pan is hopeless, for in-the-round you need a minimum of 3 channels, usually 4 and some method of controling pan properly - digital mixers might work - otherwise, go mono! The comments about really needing sound make perfect sense - if at all possible, do it unamplified. If you can't fly speakers, or find suitable floor mounted positions, give up. whatever you do, people will think the poor sound is your fault. Your teacher is unlikely to understand, not having given it any thought, leaving you with no budget to do even a passable job, unless expectations are so low as to not make it worth worrying about. You say it will be good or bad - doesn't sound as if you have any confidence in it either? Budget is the heads fault. The whole production has hardly got any. Most of the stage crew budget has been spent on actual tie mics and gels. Yes we get nothing. I think suitable floor positions will be possible, as I have an up to date picture of what the hall will look like. As for what the teachers think, we (the 'crew) get blamed for everything anyway. (this includes actors forgetting thier lines being blamed on us moving). I would love to do it un-amplified but the band will just be too loud. Oh and the band are not in the center. Thankfully. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 print this thread out and let the teacher read it. Most decent teachers will realise when they don't quite know enough to manage these things. Any attempt to use your exisiting system will be pretty unrewarding. Feedback will become really troublesome. Does your mixer have decent eq to cope? Did you buy decent radio mics, or cheap ones? If you've bought sennheisers or similar you have a bit of a lead. How many have you got? Licences? (If you are running more than the exept channels) Loads of questions, and if the answers don't work properly then somebody needs to take charge quickly to stop it going pear shaped.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 What is the band made of ? Does it have to have all the instruments it does? and can some be acoustic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James SGS Sound Tech Posted October 8, 2006 Author Share Posted October 8, 2006 The band is all acoustic. As for the teacher points. Most of those questions you mentioned can be answered with a positive, yet I do use 'most'. Sadly it all comes down to the lack of teacher knowledge concerning what the task is they're actually asking me to do and major lack of budget. Got to love school stage work eh. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 (By the way, since when is Midsummer Night's Dream a musical?) Saw a Halesworth youth company do Midsummer Night's Dream open air in a park with loads of Beatles songs throughout. Worked an absolute treat, and served to introduce a 3 & 5 year old to the Beatles, and to realise that Shakespear might actually not be all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modge Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I did a version set in a night club with a drum and base sound track. This was made easier by the fact the venue that they performed in was a night club pretty much as soon as the everyone got out and I packed up. Of course this also meant a horrible, small, wingless, heightless stage with more problems than I can point a hudge stick at. On balance it was complete crap but the thespo's enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Langfeld Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 As for what the teachers think, we (the 'crew) get blamed for everything anyway. (this includes actors forgetting thier lines being blamed on us moving). This makes me wonder why you bother putting your time and effort into it. If the staff are so ungrateful, then why should you help? Leave them to it and see how they cope without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James SGS Sound Tech Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 Just because we enjoy doing it. And personally it helps with future career plans. But there have been times when we've thought 'F**k it' x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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