Touring a new show- Need some advice

[drowner77]

I am touring a new show next year on the theatre circuit. It is a Tribute show of a big rocker so it needs balls and it needs absolute clarity.

 

I am going out with 3 back up singers and at the moment a 4 piece band consisting of Drums, Keys, guitar, and bass, and of course me --the singer.

 

I am touring from Falmouth --based in Cornwall-- to Northern Ireland all the way to Scotland.

 

I am booked in theatres ranging in size from 277 --only one which is in N.Ireland and taken to fill out the run-- all the way up to 2000 seaters in Newcastle and Jersey.

 

I want to have the same system everywhere I go and I would like it to be a NEXO system --Alpha and PS 15's for smaller venues and as monitors. However, I can be beguiled by L'acoutstics, Turbosound, D&B, or equivalent -- but I know NEXO and prefer it.

 

Here are the questions:

 

1- What do I need? At the moment I have a PS15 system with 2 LS1200's and 2 Camco Vortex 6 amps.

 

I have an Allen and Heath 16:6:4 Mix Master board with software upgrade to link into other Allen and Heath boards.

 

From there what should I be looking at? Outboard gear etc:

 

2- Should I buy the gear myself and hire a sound guy or should I lease a system from a sound company and hire a sound guy, or should I hire a company to do the job.

 

I ask this because I talked to a local sound company who was willing to do the tour or supply the kit, but he could not guarantee me that he would be able to do all the gigs. This is not acceptable to me. I need to have the same guy all of the time.

 

3- HOw much should I expect to pay for leasing an appropriate system for me from a company? I would lease it for the entire year.

 

4- How much should I expect to pay per gig if I hire the gear from a company?

 

5- If I were to buy or lease a system and supply my own engineer, around how much should I pay him/her per week -- I plan on doing 3 nights a week with the odd 2 and 4 nights --I would expect someone to take the ruff with the smooth--

 

 

And any other advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated. THis is the first tour that I have ever organized and I am doing in a Foreign --To me-- country. So if I am being a bit of a berk in my expectations or assumptions please let me know with both barrels.

 

As always, your advice is appreciated and valued, oh wise ones.

 

 

P.S.. The show starts Mar 2007.

 

If anyone is interested in the gig or any of the situ-s above contact me on thesingerhollis@hotmail.com

[Pete]

Ok here's my few points.

 

If your happy with the PS 15s for monitors then thats what I'd us them for.

The mixer seems a bit small,and I know Id rather have one desk than cascade 2.

Outboard,It's going to be the engineers preference.

Hire the kit,its been talked about here before but just to utter it again its worth it for the back up you SHOULD get.

At this point I'd like to say that I hope the PA's going to be the engineers preference so I wouldnt even like to price it up.

No idea what you'd pay an engineer I know what Id expect but I know gys thatd expect more and I know guys thatd take alot less.

You rough and smooth comment worries me,only becuase its so close to your pay question

If the pays right and the conditions are right I might be intrested!

 

Also you dont say how long the tour is.

 

Pete

[David]

If you want the same engineer for every show, you will have to employ him full time, deduct tax and NI at sauce and pay holiday pay and etc. Any self employed engineer will have the right to put in a replacement when required.

 

david

 

and what happens when he (or her) is sick, on a tour of that time, its best to have 2 engineers who know what the gigs about.

[drowner77]

The tour will run from march 2007 until Dec 31st 2007-

 

What I meant about rough and smooth was the so far I have about 3 gigs a week and that a weekly rate for an engineer would be based on that. However, there might be weeks where there are only 2 dates and he/she will still be getting paid as if it is 3 dates, but if there are the odd 4 dates in a week the same would apply. Does that make sense?

[mackerr]

2- Should I buy the gear myself and hire a sound guy or should I lease a system from a sound company and hire a sound guy, or should I hire a company to do the job.

Do you want to own, maintain, insure and store the gear when the tour is over? Do you want to also keep spares available? If not, lease.

I ask this because I talked to a local sound company who was willing to do the tour or supply the kit, but he could not guarantee me that he would be able to do all the gigs. This is not acceptable to me. I need to have the same guy all of the time.

It doesn't have to be a local company, the shows are not local. If you want someone to commit to a year of work, you will have to pay for a year of work. It is unrealistic to expect someone to commit to a tour of that length unless you commit to the money. Agree on a weekly salary for the run of the tour.

3- HOw much should I expect to pay for leasing an appropriate system for me from a company? I would lease it for the entire year.

Here in the US you should expect to pay about the retail cost of the major components of the system for a 1 year rental. In figuring the price, often stuff like cable and small bits are not counted. It seems like a lot, but will include access to spares and service. You should also be able to swap out certain elements of the system as you find they are not as suitable as you first thought.

4- How much should I expect to pay per gig if I hire the gear from a company?

More.

5- If I were to buy or lease a system and supply my own engineer, around how much should I pay him/her per week -- I plan on doing 3 nights a week with the odd 2 and 4 nights --I would expect someone to take the ruff with the smooth--

What other labour is involved? Are there props and scenery? What about lighting? Who will be advancing the venues? How much preproduction is needed for each venue? What other responsibilities will the soundman have? All of this will be part of what you pay.

And any other advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated. THis is the first tour that I have ever organized and I am doing in a Foreign --To me-- country. So if I am being a bit of a berk in my expectations or assumptions please let me know with both barrels.

There is a lot involved in what you are hoping to do. There are travel and lodging, meal allowances, work schedules for the crew, shipping and storage for the gear, and a thousand other details you won't think of till they hit you. Work with an experienced hire company that can help you with some of the production details you are not familiar with. All of your sound, lighting, and scenic needs are going to be based on the upper end of size in the venues you will be playing. If you have a couple of really big venues, you can hire additional gear for those few stops. The small venues will leave gear on the truck. Good luck.

 

Mac

[Bobbsy]

If you want the same engineer for every show, you will have to employ him full time, deduct tax and NI at sauce and pay holiday pay and etc. Any self employed engineer will have the right to put in a replacement when required.

 

david

 

and what happens when he (or her) is sick, on a tour of that time, its best to have 2 engineers who know what the gigs about.

 

That's one of the first things that struck me when I read the original post. A tour that only works (and therefore only pays) 3 days a week is going to have trouble attracting anybody willing to commit to every show. Three days in itself will not be enough to get by on but, especially with travelling, is going to mess up the engineers ability to take other work. That's why so many pro tours go straight through with tour buses and few days off.

 

As for the equipment, you'll almost certainly wish to hire/lease it unless you wish to get involved in equipment hire yourself. If you own it, you have all the worries of maintenance and stocking spares of mission-critical stuff.

 

As has been said, your board sounds seriously underspecced for the show and two boards linked would not be my choice. I'd suggest you look at a digital board which would remove much of you need for outboard and also allow the use of presets etc. which, over a year, are going to be very useful. I'm also not sure sure about your Nexo choice, especially for the bigger venues. A search of the BR should find you some threads about how, despite the appearance, it's not meant to be an array.

 

Bob

 

Edit: Dang...mackerr and drowner's posts appeared while I was typing this so I didn't have benefit of seeing them first!

[lifeisacabaret]

How about a digidesign venue- no outboard whatsoever needed if you use the plugins, and the band can be on the PQ system.

 

Your whole system idea seems extremely underspecced and unaware of the large costs and the logistical and financial implications of a long tour. You might be ok in the 200+ seater venues with your current specs, but you will fall flat on your face in anything more. Tours are expensive, and a large degree of realism and pragmatism needs to be considered when approaching the production logistics.

[Bobbsy]

How about a digidesign venue- no outboard whatsoever needed if you use the plugins, and the band can be on the PQ system.

 

Er, if an A&H Mixwizard (or 2) is/are underspecced for this show (and you're right), I daresay a £150K Venue is just as much OVERspecced and outside the OP's price range. When I mentioned digital, I had in mind something more in the bracket of a DM1000 or M7CL (or, with really pushing the boat out, a PM-5D). Any of those would still handle all the outboard requirements, and not need the purchase of plugins to do it!

 

Bob

[lifeisacabaret]

I was quoted £56,000 for a 96ch venue from Marquee. Its just slightly above the PM5D in price bracket. Nowhere near £150,000. (main unit, side car, 2 stage boxes, foh rack, standard venuepack bundled plugins). I dont have the quote to hand so I cant remember if that figure was including VAT, but even if it wasnt, its nowhere near £150k.

 

 

'Balls and absolute clarity'. A few PS15s and an A&H MixWiz will not give you this, in a 200 seater, let alone a 2000 seater.

[Bobbsy]

I was quoted £56,000 for a 96ch venue from Marquee. Its just slightly above the PM5D in price bracket. Nowhere near £150,000.

 

Well, about double the standard PM-5D (as opposed to the RH version) if that price is right. I was led to believe that, once all the bells, whistles and plugins are added, the Venue is well over £100K. However, not being a fan of Digidesign in general or the design theory of the Venue specifically, I've never got a detailed quote and apologise if my price info is wrong.

 

I couldn't agree more about the serious underspeccing in the OP though.

 

Bob

[drowner77]

Just so we're clear, I was not considering using my PS15's or the mix wizard in any of the big venues as a FOH system. I was merely pointing out what I had on hand to add to the mix. I just thought the information could be useful since the A+H board and the PS-15's would be dandy as a monitor set up, should a tech decide that monitor control would be best from the stage rather than FOH.

 

As for being realistic, I think that I am. I am trying to avoid mistakes by asking the pros for advice.

 

 

Again, I am learning as I go. It seems that booking the show is the easy part. It is the logistical stuff that is the tricky bit because I have never had to do this side of the biz.

 

Any and all advice on how to make the logistics and anything else for this tour would be appreciated.

 

D--

[lifeisacabaret]

I was quoted £56,000 for a 96ch venue from Marquee. Its just slightly above the PM5D in price bracket. Nowhere near £150,000.

 

Well, about double the standard PM-5D (as opposed to the RH version) if that price is right. I was led to believe that, once all the bells, whistles and plugins are added, the Venue is well over £100K. However, not being a fan of Digidesign in general or the design theory of the Venue specifically, I've never got a detailed quote and apologise if my price info is wrong.

 

I couldn't agree more about the serious underspeccing in the OP though.

 

Bob

 

Ah yes sorry- im going at this from a specifically theatre perspective, so Ive compared it to the RH version (im yet to see a standard PM5D in a theatre installation or show), which comes in at about 43k, and comes without a multicore etc (which is all part of the venue package). So 56k, when making an investment of that size isnt an alltogether massive difference. Im yet to make the purchase, as its for research purposes, but if I were to make it, id have to say id go with the Venue.

 

 

Advice? Production Finance. LOTS of it.

[dbuckley]

The other option which may work out better and cheaper given your gappy schedule is to hire local companies for each of the gigs, and employ a decent engineer full time for the whole tour who can do the advancing and select suitable local providors. As long as the provided systems are suitable for the job, then a decent engineer should be able to make you sound good on all of them.

[mackerr]

The other option which may work out better and cheaper given your gappy schedule is to hire local companies for each of the gigs, and employ a decent engineer full time for the whole tour who can do the advancing and select suitable local providors. As long as the provided systems are suitable for the job, then a decent engineer should be able to make you sound good on all of them.

I think this will be a more expensive option. The OP said they would be booked 3 days a week. Most weekly rentals are based on about 3 times the daily rate per week, and 2.5 times the weekly rate per month. That works out to 7.5 times the daily rate per month. On a yearly rental you may be able to do better. It would certainly be better for consistency to have the same setup every time, particularly with a digital board like a DM1000 or M7Cl where songs could be preprogrammed to set up all the effects and get a rough mix ready. Here in the US you can get a DM1000 for under $5000, a Maackie TT24 for under $7,000, and a 32+4 M7 for under $15,000.

 

There is still the whole issue of whether there will also be a lighting package, and props and costumes. All of this stuff will need to be trucked.

 

Mac

[dbuckley]

There is still the whole issue of whether there will also be a lighting package, and props and costumes. All of this stuff will need to be trucked.

 

Yeah, I should have been more complete in my suggestion... Hiring local avoids trucking costs, and/or storage costs, and the other problem I see is the variance in size of venue. A system for a 2000 seater (which may be a line array) may well not be able to be broken down to make an effective rig for a 200 seater.

 

This will, ultimately, all come down to logistics. If its a random mixture of sizes and locations that may favour a local approach. If its sequential in size of gig then a long term arrangement on several different sizes of rig may work out very cheap.

 

I make the suggestion as a local NZ luminary, one Dave Dobbyn, did a tour last year called The Available Light Tour, where he played venues of all sizes, including the 300 seat house I often use, and he used a local theatre companies lighting system, which has exactly eight parcans. On other venues in larger houses he had "proper" light rigs. I seem to recall (less clear on this, it was a very brief conversation) that the sound rig was a small touring rig, and for the bigger gigs something appropriate was hired locally. Also when Brian Wilson played in Christchurch the lighting and sound were both provided by local companies, not Oceania from Auckland, but operated by touring ops.