pyro placement

[thelightbulb]

hello one and all

 

would like to know for a panto coming up in an amateur venue

where really is a safe place to put a pyro on stage for flash bang entries as I would have thought at the front behind a boarder essentially where you expect foot light to be (obviously with no lights) as in previous shows they have pushed it out in front of the place where the actor is to emerge and I always have thought this to be rather risky especially as the actors have a knack of wanting to jump in to it!

any advice

 

m

[LeeStoddart]

Downstage in the floats is where we place them - that way they can be fixed. I really don't like the situation where the pyro can be moved during the show. In the case you describe it sounds like it would be difficult to ensure that you have a safe distance between the pyro and any person.

[Nat_Keiller]

I'll second that: At the front and fixed to the floor is the best place (Assuming the actor is not making an entrance right at the back).

[pritch]

Would largely depend on the pyro in question and the design of the stage and set.

 

Your main concerns are going to be making sure that you've got enough space around the pyro (Le Maitre list the required clearances on their website), and making sure that it's in a place where your pyro operator can have direct line of site to both the pyro and the area around it.

[thelightbulb]

exactly it has really rather concernerned me as these guys are am dram and have not really had any experience of profession whereas I have and it di look rather dangerous to me.

[steve1159]

I would point out that the distances listed on the le Maitre site are the effect distances and are approx. They are not the safety distances. It is important with all pyro effects to look at them in your environment in a controlled manner and then carry out a risk assessment to ensure that you have adequate clearance. Having said that Le maitre or any of there dealers should be able to help advise you and yes we are a Le Maitre dealer

[paulears]

If you want to be really safe, set one up with loads of space around it, then video the results - then you can properly assess where it can be put.

Floats, or even false ones, with the audience and musicians protected from the direct flash and debris may simply be the only practicl place to put them on a busy, and sometimes unpredictable stage

[Nat_Keiller]

Don't forget that the legal, and final, decision falls with the person pressing the 'fire' button, (who should at all times have a clear view of the detonation area). If they deem it to be unsafe, then they should not fire it, even if someone else has deemed that to be a safe way to do things.

[Jivemaster]

Consider the effect you want first, see if and how it can be done, see what product to use to do the effect. THEN assess the hazards to any people and any property and work out how to minimise the hazards. THEN estimate the risk, the probability, of the hazards occuring, and minimise the risks, then evaluate the likely damage and the probability of its occurance. One system is to numerically evaluate hazard and risk, 1 as minimal, 5 as serious/injuries.

 

Multiply risk by hazard and get a number 1 - 25 Then reduce again. to ensure there can be no injuries.

 

All the time there isa the chance that there will be a total block on pyro, if you cannot get it safe.

 

Then you do tests. Try the Fx where you want it and spread some paper on the floor and surroundings and look for scorch marks.

[DavidLee]

I would point out that the distances listed on the le Maitre site are the effect distances and are approx. They are not the safety distances. It is important with all pyro effects to look at them in your environment in a controlled manner and then carry out a risk assessment to ensure that you have adequate clearance. Having said that Le maitre or any of there dealers should be able to help advise you and yes we are a Le Maitre dealer

 

I agree with the phrase "should be able to help" but unfortunately my experience is that LeMaitre will now flatly refuse to give any safety information or advice whatsoever.

 

I have had a lot of experience with pyro in a professional venue but a couple of years ago was faced with the request to use Pyroflash effects in a panto on a small village hall stage. No-one at Le M would commit themselves to giving any advice whatsoever about typical minimum safe working distances for the smallest devices but just parroted the mantra that it was entirely my responsibility to test-fire devices myself. In the end I was able to obtain a suitable table of minimum safety distances from Sky-High for their equivalent effects, which allowed me to complete a risk assessment. The outcome was that the effects clearly could not be used safely so we substitued a much smaller effect using a maroon. Following Le Maitre guidelines it would have cost us a lot of money to determine this information experimentally and that still wouldn't have taken into account variability of the size of the effects due to faults in manufacture (which I have recently found to my cost can result in a double load of charge!)

 

I had a similar run-in with Le Maitre a few years previously when I was stage managing a show in which we were considering using a "Hand Flash" effect (a handheld device, fired by an actor, using a small charge of flash cotton to propel a burning pellet of flash paper). I needed to know the likely severity of injury in the event of an accident (since Risk equals Probability times Severity and the probability of an actor doing something stupid is never negligible!). Again Le M flatly refused to comment - just repeatedly chanting the blindingly obvious that you shouldn't point the effect at anybody. Eventually after much heated argument I managed to get one of their more senior staff to admit that he himself had fired a hand flash with his fingers over the barrel and was able to describe the effect as being painful and unpleasant but not causing serious or lasting injury. We bought the effect but never used it -the flash paper is supplied wet and in our unheated workshops around Christmas time we never managed to dry it out enough to ignite!

 

David

[pyromonkey]

Eventually after much heated argument I managed to get one of their more senior staff to admit that he himself had fired a hand flash with his fingers over the barrel and was able to describe the effect as being painful and unpleasant but not causing serious or lasting injury.

 

Been there, done that, burned my eyebrows! :)

nothing worse than the smell of burning hair!

 

Accidentally a few years ago when reloading the flash gun (aim towards face) trying to get flash paper in a comet shape had both buttons pushed in. and before realising the glow plug was hot BAM! proud to say only accident Ive had with pyro. and intend to keep it that way! :(

 

Note to self always take flash gun off hand before reloading and aim away from face! ....... :P

 

Great effect though!

[Ellis]

This really is a case of getting decent training such as the ABTT course.

 

Another location that may work well is screwed to the stage close to the (suitable flameproofed) proscenium arch (provided th FOH tabs are far enough away).

 

I have also seen a flash pot set on stage before the show (or scene), fired and pulled off with a piece of sash after firing.

[GridGirl]

I have also seen a flash pot set on stage before the show (or scene), fired and pulled off with a piece of sash after firing.

 

I've done something similar - mounted the pod on a bit of 3x1 painted black, taped the cable to it and had a (thoroughly reliable and trustworthy!) crew member push it out on cue and pull it back after firing - a couple of times we also incorporated a dead man's handle into it as well for a double safety system.

[AndrewR]

I have also seen a flash pot set on stage before the show (or scene), fired and pulled off with a piece of sash after firing.

 

I've done something similar - mounted the pod on a bit of 3x1 painted black, taped the cable to it and had a (thoroughly reliable and trustworthy!) crew member push it out on cue and pull it back after firing - a couple of times we also incorporated a dead man's handle into it as well for a double safety system.

 

Seen this done to good effect too, I wont name the show....But! The venue management were wetting themselves over the use of pyros in the show, we inspected all their gear and they were obviously offended by any suggestion (they had never had an accident of course) that they might not be hugely competent....

 

During the show there were 4 crew (including myself) standing in the wings with fire extinguishers (there was a lot of fire used in the finale)

 

I stared in amasement as at the start of the show as they had extended their pyro leads with a 1/4" jack connection...I didn't have time to say a word as the show started, and as they pulled the spent pyros off, surprise surprise, the jack connection came apart. Thankfully it didn't cause a problem.

 

The fire in the finale did set off the fire alarm thought....for about an hour :D