Hard hat suggestions

[mumbles]

Have had a search through the safety forum, but to no avail.

 

I normally use standard hard hats from places like brookes when rigging and WAH. However, more recently I've started working more and more, and am getting annoyed with having to share hats between a group of others (with the safety of the helmet a particular concern). Therefore I am looking at buying my own hat.

 

From the other topics, it would appear that there are different designs for WAH and for working at ground level with people above, but I can't find suggestions on what designs to buy. Ideally I would like not to spend too much on it, as I won't be working that much, but obviously don't want to sacrifice quality and safety. I have been looking at the petzl vector, but does anyone else have any suggestions.

 

Thank you

 

I have been looking at the petzl vector, but does anyone else have any suggestions.

EDIT; (24/7/06)Whoops, just looked at it again and found I meant the vertex not vector, sorry if this confused anyone.

[Nickwoolley]

I must say I need one for Uni soon and this is the one I am looking at.

If anyone on here owns it can they give us the heads up on it?

 

Thanks in advance

[wako_jacko]

I got mine from a local hardware (builders clothing/ shoe / hard hat/ etc shop), not like B&Q or homebae, in kingston, can't remember its name and probobly not much use to you, but if you can find somewhere like that it might help as they really helped me, it's the only place I get PPC from now.

 

also, the 'Vector' did confuse me, I googled it and got really confused ;) (didn't know I had a smiley named after me :** laughs out loud **: )

[Rich newby]

Hi guys

 

Right, well as most of you know I'm very much into my climbing. For that I ware either a Camp Rockstar (very basic helmet and not very stylish, however, its very comfortable, cheap and has points for mounting a head torch.) I also use a petzl elios, which I much prefer. Much more stylish and almost as comfortable as the rockstar. The elios is a much better fit to you head, whereas the rockstar seems to sit above your head and the elios sits on it. I do believe that the helmets for WAH are not allowed to have air vents, that is right? And the other difference and why you cannot use a hard hat for WAH is because you need a chin strap. My climbing partner also has a camp silverstar helmet, which is very comfortable and looks good as well.

 

Anyhow there's a few names to type into goggle!!

 

Finally, the whole reason I ware a helmet for rock climbing, which obviously transfers to wearing one in theatre as well, except maby with a safety chain or gel holder instead of a rock. This is the story of a rock climber who was climbing quite a famous and precarious root in Tasmania, called the totem pole. It is quite a trek to get to the bottom of the climb. As paul was getting ready to do the climb a boulder, about the size of a TV struck him square on the head. He was wearing a helmet as the time. He still had severe brain damage and was paralysed on one half of his body. With speech training he managed to talk again and is starting to live a fairly normal life. If he was not wearing his helmet the boulder would have flattened his head, killing him instantly.

 

So no matter what people tell you, even from a huge impact which you would have thought a helmet would not make a difference, there are cases where it can.

anyway I better stop typing before I go drastically off topic, if I haven't already! ;)

 

HTH

Rich

 

P.S Nick(or anyone else near Newcastle)if you want to try any of them on before you buy just give me a pm and I will arrange something.

[Andrew C]

Are either of those approved as PPE? As has been discussed ad-nausium rock climbing is not the same as working!

[Nick S]

No, they are most certainly not!

 

Right, well as most of you know I'm very much into my climbing. For that I ware either a Camp Rockstar (very basic helmet and not very stylish, however, its very comfortable, cheap and has points for mounting a head torch.) I also use a petzl elios, which I much prefer. Much more stylish and almost as comfortable as the rockstar. The elios is a much better fit to you head, whereas the rockstar seems to sit above your head and the elios sits on it. I do believe that the helmets for WAH are not allowed to have air vents, that is right?

 

Both the Rockstar and the Petzl Elios are not sutiable. There's a reason Petzl only list the Vertex under their work solutions section of their website, and not their proper climbing helmets.

 

The Petzl Vertex is sutiable, but you should choose which model carefully - I believe on of the Vertex models is aimed at the construction industry, and not sutiable for WAH. The Vertex Best is probably the ideal option out of the Vertex range for working at height.

 

Finally, the whole reason I ware a helmet for rock climbing, which obviously transfers to wearing one in theatre as well, except maby with a safety chain or gel holder instead of a rock.

 

But not the same helmet! I mean, come on - the Elios comes with a warning that it's easily crushed! This isn't the kind of helmet you want to use for PPE!

[gareth]

Don't forget, Nick - you're responding to comments by Rich Newby, who is well-known on the Blue Room for handing out lots of 'advice' that he's not sufficiently qualified or experienced to give ...

[Nick S]

Indeed ;) I felt someone should refute it less someone come wandering onto this page from Google and feel climbing helmets would be sutiable!

[adodger]

Hello

 

Can't really say that I've had too much experience in this field (PPE in theatre), however I do have experience of PPE for engineering firms (Chemical plants, nuclear power stations etc..)

 

A good place to try for hard hats would be your local Arco store as they have lots of PPE experience, and I usually find that they have lots of knowledge of what to use and where, so it might be worth giving them a try :** laughs out loud **:

 

The website is Arco

 

Give them a try, if you don't have any luck, then let me know and I'll ask around some of the customers we have as to where they go for PPE. ;)

[Seano]

I think you can be too dogmatic about this. Yes, strictly a hard-hat for use in the workplace should conform to EN397.

 

However, under certain circumstances, I think you can make a good case for using a helmet that meets EN12492 instead. The UIAA standard required of climbing helmets is quite exacting, and mountaineering helmets are designed to protect against the exact same hazards that you're likely to meet while working at height in our industry.

 

That said, the Camp Rockstar and Petzl Elios are both extremely lightweight helmets, which owe a fair bit to developments in cycling helmets. I'm clearly less dogmatic than Nick S. here, but I would have to agree with him that neither of these helmets would be a good choice for work.

 

Either would offer as much impact protection as (maybe more than) any EN397 industrial helmet when in good condition, but their very lightweight construction does mean they're (paradoxically) a bit fragile and are unlikely to withstand the treatment hard hats get in the workplace.

 

Nick is also quite right that one of the Vertex range (the Vertex ST) has a chinstrap thats designed to break relatively easily if the helmet gets snagged, that also means it can be relatively easily knocked off, and so isn't the best choice for most WaH. Funnily enough, that is the only one in the Vertex range that is fully compliant with the industrial standard. The helmets that *are* recommended for WaH all do so by meeting the mountaineering standard for the chinstrap instead.

 

Comfort is an issue too. For use in our industry, I would personally recommend the Vertex Vent, as I find overheating can be a real problem. Its ventilation holes mean it doesn't meet the EN397 standard for electrical insulation or molten metal splash - neither of which is likely to be a problem unless you're welding at height.

 

Now, having said all that, a Petzl Vertex helmet will cost around 6-10 times the price of a good industrial hard-hat. For the OP, I'd say if you're not sure whether you need one, you probably don't, save your money. When shopping for an industrial hat, you should look for one with a 'reduced peak' - this gives you better visibility upwards than a standard helmet, and means you don't have to expose your whole face to look up. (Particularly useful if you're one of those people who can't resist looking up when you hear a shout of 'heads'!) A chinstrap is an optional extra for most good quality industrial hats, though if you get one with a wheel ratchet cradle you'll find it feels pretty secure if you just ratchet it a click or two tighter. (Not massively comfy though, you wouldn't want to wear it that way all day long.)

 

hth

Sean

x

 

ps: When shopping for industial PPE, Arco is often a good place to start.

(edit: Aha, snap!)

[SeanT]

http://www.astleys.co.uk/ ;)

[mumbles]

Now, having said all that, a Petzl Vertex helmet will cost around 6-10 times the price of a good industrial hard-hat. For the OP, I'd say if you're not sure whether you need one, you probably don't, save your money. When shopping for an industrial hat, you should look for one with a 'reduced peak' - this gives you better visibility upwards than a standard helmet, and means you don't have to expose your whole face to look up. (Particularly useful if you're one of those people who can't resist looking up when you hear a shout of 'heads'!) A chinstrap is an optional extra for most good quality industrial hats, though if you get one with a wheel ratchet cradle you'll find it feels pretty secure if you just ratchet it a click or two tighter. (Not massively comfy though, you wouldn't want to wear it that way all day long.)

Wanted a helmet that can be worn throughout the day for a few hours at a time. The helmets we use are a mix of reduced peak and full peak, and in a range of styles, hence why I wanted a distingiushable one for myself.

[Seano]

The helmets we use are a mix of reduced peak and full peak, and in a range of styles, hence why I wanted a distingiushable one for myself.

 

Well, if its just a question of standing out from the crowd:

Here you go! ;)

 

http://www.robinsons-uk.com/product_images/detail/28504-01.jpg

[Chris Higgs]

Legally, PPE has to be compatible with the work and the user.

The Vent is appropriate as head protection when working at height, but technically not at ground level since the shell is not impervious and the chin strap will not fail at the required value to meet the EN397 standard.

 

Don't confuse work at height with rope access or 'climbing'; rope access is working at height, clearly, but so is leaning over the circle front.

In the circle front, if there is a risk of falling and fall arrest equipment is used then an industrial climbing helmet is entirely appropriate. However, if the people working are using only restraint and there is no chance of a fall, then the use of a 'building site' helmet with a chin strap may be entirely appropriate as head protection against falling objects (if all other measures have been exhausted - also the legal requirement.)

The place to start is to look at the job and the site - do people need to be working underneath? Often they do only because no-one has planned it another way.

If there is a reportable injury and the enforcing authority look at the situation, you may find yourself issued with an improvement notice that requires you to restructure work to avoid such risks - so why not do it anyway? Don't wait for an accident to prompt safe working.

As has been discussed numerous times here, PPE is an employer's decison, based on the control measures his risk assessment requires.To decide for yourself is wrong, it shouldn't cost you a penny and you should receive training in the use of the PPE when it is issued to you.

To the people who say "but that isn't the real world, no one at work is interested" - use your time to resolve it with your employer instead of wasting your time discussing it here.

With the greatest respect to all pro and anti Rich Newby - the guy is only 15, give him a break. We all started out keen.

The strength of the BR is that Rich and his peers can think about the topics raised - these guys are the future.

Rich, mate - read the previous threads (for years) about hard hats, much of it is good stuff.

[Ellis]

To paraphrase the OP said that he was thinking of buying his own had hat because he did not feel confident in the integrity of the hard hats he had to share with other users. This is not really a viable solution because, as Chris said, PPE is the responsibility of the employer. That responsibility extends to ensuring the integrity of the hard hats (including a responsibility to ensure that they are within their safe working life). With shared equipment, it is very difficult to monitor whether invisible damage has occurred (e.g. hard hat dropped onto a hard surface).

 

If you are working in an environmnt where PPE is necessary and you are unsure about the integrity of the PPE provided, you should take it up with your employer - you could suggest that they issue you, personally with equipment for your exclusive use. This does not exhonourate them from any of their normal responsibilities to monitor the condition of the equipment, but can give you the peace of mind that you know the condition that this important piece of kit is in.

 

Incidentally, the addition of a company name or first-aider sticker can be enough to invalidate an EN397 approval.